What would Lord Robert Baden-Powell have said?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.telegraph....w-to-secularists.html

So it looks like the Girl Guides are set to drop their oath to God, just because two families have objected to the oath.

/// Caroline Mason said her daughter had felt unable to take part in her Brownies enrolment in north Somerset due to the religious content of the Promise.///

/// A second complaint came from Juliette and Barry Willett, who said their daughter Maddie had been excluded from a ceremony in Crawley Down, West Sussex. ///

/// "She's incredibly upset at the idea that she can't be a fully fledged Brownie," said Mrs Willett. ///

Perhaps these two girls should not have joined a movement founded on true Christian beliefs?

[Kayless]

surely the guides should be wearing burkas these days!

[jno]

It's a long time since the Girl Guides (an organisation that functions all over the world) has been a specifically Christian enterprise. Baden-Powell set up the Scouts to be the training ground for imperialists rather than Christians, but that no longer has much currency either. Oaths have long been peripheral to either organisation, and there's no point in excluding possible members by insisting on them.

[naomi24]

A great organisation - but wrong that any child should be excluded for such a reason. This is welcome progress.

[boxtops]

I agree that this needs to be updated. Scout and Guide organisations should be multidenominational - or none. I'm involved with the Air Cadets and they have no religious affiliation, they accept all comers - they do have a padre (as one would expect from a service organisation) and support events at the local church, but cultural and religious awareness is a large part of the organisation's ethos.

[saxy_jag]

I was a Beaver Scout leader some years ago. It was always understood that boys (it was only boys in those days) who were of non-Christian faith could adapt the promise to 'my God/Allah/Krishna' or whatever.

Since then though, I've become enlightened and am now an atheist. I would not even think of joining the Scouts or Guides these days, purely because of the religious nature of the organisation.

Maybe these girls would better off joining the Woodcraft Folk: http://www.woodcraft.org.uk/

[DTCwordfan]

Progress at last as the GG change to the times - most of us are agnostic/aetheist - what is it now, less than 5% who go to Church regularly and less than 3% who go weekly. The GG and BS need to become more secular and open to all.

As to the article, there is an element of a "storm in a tea cup" as Ms M and J and B W didn't get their way straight up. And shyte-stirring knowing that the aged right-wingers such as Major Fotherington-Gusset of Somerset and AOG will take the call to arms.

[sp1814]

Christian beliefs?

Baden Powell was a paedophile.

This is well known and documented.

http://www.glgarden.o...g/archive1/baden.html

Makes me laugh when someone is held up to be a paragon of moral virtues, when all he wants is to see naked kids running about.

[cathfromsaron]

the pledge was amended to 'serve your god ...' (ie. whichever you choose) years ago! this can be interpreted to include non-christians and non- believers equally!

i bet they still celebrate xmas though!!!!

[naomi24]

Cathfromsaron, Out of interest, who do the non-believers pledge to serve?

[anotheoldgit]

saxy_jag

/// Since then though, I've become enlightened and am now an atheist. I would not even think of joining the Scouts or Guides these days, purely because of the religious nature of the organisation. ///

That's fair enough, you were free to make your choices, and anyone else who feels the same also have the choice to join or not to join.

Why change any organization just for the few?

The Boy's Brigade is strictly a church organisation, perhaps they should also change, then why go even further, and perhaps remove the words 'God save our Gracious Queen' from our anthem?

[DTCwordfan]

Good idea, AOG, its a crap anthem and German in its original form (the music) - "I vow to thee my Country" or "Land of Hope and Glory" to replace it.

[naomi24]

AOG, you complain about the 'youth of today', but when an organisation - that does a very good job for our young people - suggests it might move with the times in order to accommodate more of them, you object. Personally, I'd like to see more of our kids getting involved in groups like Scouts, Guides, etc, so I really can't work out your reasoning on that one.

[sandyRoe]

Sp1814, the title of his book, 'Scouting for boys,' rather gave the game away.

[bednobs]

i completely agree AOG, god save our queen should definately go!

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// Baden Powell was a paedophile. ///

It is ironic that you state this, seeing that you are always saying the pedophiles are mainly white males, but it is well known by many that Baden-Powell was most certainly a repressed homosexual, also a female impersonator.

In his early service life he loved to surround himself with young good looking male subalterns and assistants.

/// Baden-Powell also had a decades-long friendship with Kenneth McLaren, with whom he served in the military and with whom he shared accommodations as often as he could.///

http://www.bookrescue.../scoutingfounder.html

[jno]

sp1814, I can't see your link, so what's the evidence for this?

[craft1948]

Sometimes I feel that 'moving with the times' is not always a good thing, especially looking at the state our country has now 'moved to'...........

[DTCwordfan]

http://www.guardian.c...ay/28/childprotection

perhaps this, jno. There has always been rumours but nothing definite, repressed yes and he liked photos but there is no direct proof......Kitchener as well was "indicted" as well apparently, for a cover up of B-P so called activities