What would Lord Robert Baden-Powell have said?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.telegraph....w-to-secularists.html

So it looks like the Girl Guides are set to drop their oath to God, just because two families have objected to the oath.

/// Caroline Mason said her daughter had felt unable to take part in her Brownies enrolment in north Somerset due to the religious content of the Promise.///

/// A second complaint came from Juliette and Barry Willett, who said their daughter Maddie had been excluded from a ceremony in Crawley Down, West Sussex. ///

/// "She's incredibly upset at the idea that she can't be a fully fledged Brownie," said Mrs Willett. ///

Perhaps these two girls should not have joined a movement founded on true Christian beliefs?

[tonywiltshire]

You are right aog they do not have to join, they can join an organisation without an oath.

[cathfromsaron]

naomi ... i took this to mean your (interpretation of) god (if any) when i enrolled ... but it has been 30 odd years since i was a brownie or guide!

they always seemed really flexible and inclusive to me!

[Brenden]

Seems like they are making a mountain out of a molehill - you can either join or not- choices.

[cathfromsaron]

or start their own group if they are THAT fussy ...

[craft1948]

I agree Brenden.

[naomi24]

cathfromsaron, thanks for that. I wonder what they're asked to say?

Actually, I can't see the relevance to this question of Baden Powell's 'preferences'.

[naomi24]

If non-believers are excluded, I think it's a shame. That's no way to treat kids. Not very Christian, is it?

[cathfromsaron]

me neither - and thanks for your replies! They say:

I promise that I will do my best, To do my duty to God, To serve the Queen and my country, To help other people, and keep the Guide law.

*stands to attention and salutes*

[jno]

thanks, DT. I knew about the photos, as I know about Lewis Carroll's; but I've never been convinced that something that apparently went unremarked a century or more ago can be read as paedophilia. Presumably no other evidence has come up that might indicate anything worse.

As for the Guides changing their rules: it happens all the time. Here's a list of discontinued American badges, for instance

http://en.wikipedia.o..._Scouts_of_America%29

[craft1948]

If my child wished to join an association but didn't meet the criteria, I would look elsewhere, not try and force a change of rules on the existing association.

[Brenden]

jno, Amalgamating or changing badges is not the same as changing rules.

[naomi24]

Not exactly the local youth club though, is it Craft? ;o)

I don't get the impression that these parents are trying to 'force' the change - rather that because some children are excluded, the organisation thinks it might be time for a change.

[jno]

there are rules covering the requirements for badges, and they change.

[Brenden]

Yes jno, you have to work in that field to earn them.

[craft1948]

So you think the association should change their rules to include a minority, rather than cater to the majority?

[jno]

what naomi says. Organisations want to keep attracting members; if they find that their rules drive away some potential members, play no part in attracting others, and aren't particularly useful anyway, they'll change them. Very sensible of them.

[Brenden]

I can hear the cry of MY RIGHTS from here.

[anotheoldgit]

naomi24

/// Actually, I can't see the relevance to this question of Baden Powell's 'preferences'. ///

You've no need to, it was sp1814 interruption that questioned Baden Powell's 'preferences' and nothing to do with my question.

[anotheoldgit]

naomi24

/// I don't get the impression that these parents are trying to 'force' the change ///

Read the article, /// The move emerged after two families objected to the current wording. ////

[naomi24]

Craft, if that's to me, I think great organisations like the Scouts or the Guides should be open to all children regardless of colour or creed. We should be encouraging kids to join - not excluding them for the sake of religion. That creates too much separation in the adult world, so let's not impose it upon our children. The more the merrier, I say!