Are you proud to be English?

[anotheoldgit]

http://namedropping.w...1/08/05/this-england/

Those who are English are constantly called British, why are they trying to wipe the English from the map?

But if some continue to class us as British why do they then shorten this by referring to us as 'Brits'?

If it is offensive to shorten the word of Pakistanis, then surely it is just as offensive to shorten the word of British by calling us 'Brits'?

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// NO - if someone was described to me as Asian, I think of India, Pakistan etc. ///

/// If someone was described as South East Asian, then my mind goes to China, Japan etc. ///

Aren't you being a little pedantic?

But please let me join you.

South East Asian? Surely you mean Far East Asian?

[Zeuhl]

This question is loaded with dubious assumptions;

<those who are English are constantly called British>

Are they? Well, after all, it is factually accurate. The nationality of all English people is 'British'.

It is also an accurate way of generalising - in the south east of England for example, a random group of people who appear to be native born and 'English' will frequently be Scots, Welsh or Irish in origin.

And, a lot of people may share my feelings; that as an English person with great grandparents from Wales, Scotland, Ireland and England, I actually like the inclusive term British.

Especially as the golden age of the British Empire was built by people from all the constituent parts with the assistance of the British army and the British navy.

<why are they trying to wipe the English from the map?>
Are they? who is exactly? I don't see or feel that.
Depends if you feel weak and threatened I suppose.

<surely it is just as offensive to shorten the word of British by calling us 'Brits'>

In my experience the word Brits is used as a term of admiration or endearment at least as often as a deregotary one. How many occasions can we think of when the term *** has been used thus?

Overall, abbreviating to shorter names is widespread. Ask the Yanks, Ozzies and Kiwis.

Choosing to get upset over the word Brits may just be a sign of insecurity.

[L00fah100]

Why are we so hung up about this? You have us fighting over ourselves welsh, scots, irish and english, you have the americans chanting "U.S.A! U.S.A!
Surely we should just concentrate on the depth and content of our character and not where our mothers happened to be when they birthed us!

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// You're in a queue waiting to be served in a cake shop. An Asian man is in front of you and as he's about to be served, his phone rings and he answers it. ///

Would that be a Pa**i shop?

Don't all rush to your keyboards I am just trying to make a point here.

This term is often used by some to describe a shop owned by an Indian person, just as a Chinese take-away is often called a Chin*y take-away, and these are just terms of endearment and in no way should be classed as racist.

Another example of this would be a shop own by an Irish person who one didn't know the name of, would often be described as 'Paddy's' shop, or a shop owned by a Scottish person would be called 'Jocks' shop.

[Zeuhl]

Old Git seems to be contradicting himself.

If those terms are ok and non-racist, then an american visiting M&S in New York would be ok referring to the 'Brit Shop'

So what's the problem?

[anotheoldgit]

merely English.......... merely English how dare you didn't we give the world our Language, so much so that it is the official language of many countries.

http://en.wikipedia.o..._an_official_language

/// English remains the leading international language, with an estimated 1.5 billion speakers across the world. The dominance of English is colossal; the most widely used language the world has ever seen. It is the language of modern scholarship, the internet and technology, the global media and advertising, international politics and diplomacy, and particularly, global business. ///

Also our Law and our Parliament, of which many countries of the World are pleased to copy.

[Zeuhl]

The English language is indeed wonderful, and so rich, incorporating as it does all those French words, Celtic, Gaelic, Norse etc

Not forgetting all those great exponents of the language; Lloyd George and Disraeli; Oscar Wilde and Dylan Thomas, Sir Walter Scott and Joseph Conrad and that half american guy, what was his name? o yeah Winston Churchill.

[anotheoldgit]

Zeuhl

/// Old Git seems to be contradicting himself.///

/// If those terms are ok and non-racist, then an american visiting M&S in New York would be ok referring to the 'Brit Shop' ///

/// So what's the problem? ///

Well if you cannot comprehend that then you must be reading a different thread.

The problem is just that fact, if an American can call it a 'Brit' shop which of course is not racist at all, why is it racist to call a shop owned by an Asian person a P**i shop.

Nothing sinister going off here just forever seeking a level playing field.

[FredPuli43]

When have you heard 'Brit' used as a derogatory term, aog ?

Apparently you think it's fine to call a shop 'a *** shop' . Would you, describing it more fully, say 'It's a shop run by Pakis ' ?

[FredPuli43]

^^ a [singular of Pakis ] shop ^^ The filters on AB sometimes make no sense at all.

[anotheoldgit]

Zeuhl

/// Not forgetting all those great exponents of the language; Lloyd George and Disraeli; Oscar Wilde and Dylan Thomas, Sir Walter Scott and Joseph Conrad and that half american guy, what was his name? o yeah Winston Churchill. ///

Yes indeed, but why just these, since most people of the world speak that great language 'English' no matter from what country they come from.

[Johnysid]

The Nation State is the unit of diversity. It is the Nation that legislates and enforces law. If you go to Islamic countries they have similarities but Iran is very different from Turkey which is different from Egypt (despite centuries of the Ottoman Empire). It is the same in Christendom with broad similarities but quite marked differences between say, the USA and Sweden due to nationhood.

We used to be British between the Act of Union and Labour's botched devolution. Those who were British are now Scots, English, Welsh and Northern Irish.

Am I proud to be English? Not yet. It is only when English people grow up and take control of their new state that I might become proud.

At the moment we are so apathetic that we deserve the woes that are befalling us. We even support political parties like Labour and Tory that do not represent our nation but live in a fantasy world where they claim to represent other people's nations, such as the Scots, Irish and Welsh, as well.

We vote Tory and Labour like robots. We should hold these parties to account by voting for other, English partys.

[boxtops]

I don't mind being called English, or British, or European - because I AM all of those categories.

[Zeuhl]

<<why just these, since most people of the world speak that great language 'English'>>

absolutely.

i was just citing 'home-grown' examples who were not English

<Well if you cannot comprehend that then you must be reading a different thread.>

Or perhaps your explanations aren't very clear?

The term 'p**i shop' isn't necessarily racist any more than 'Brit Shop'. Any racism comes from intent and context. I'm sure I have used the term 'p**i shop' but the issue is that whilst the term 'Brit' is often used as a term of admiration and endearment how many times have you heard or read the term p**i used thus? Compared with the number of times you have heard or read it used as a derogatory term?

[Kromovaracun]

"why is it racist to call a shop owned by an Asian person a P**i shop. "

Because of the cultural context. There's nothing *inherently* racist in the term P**i, but it has been used as a racist epithet for so long that it has become virtually synonymous with racism. Just like the word 'gay' doesn't necessary denote homosexuality, but it's deployed so often in our culture as a word for homosexual, that it's become virtually synonymous with the term. If you want to blame anyone for bastardizing the word P**i or whatever, blame racists - not the imaginary 'PC brigade'.

[Kromovaracun]

"We used to be British between the Act of Union and Labour's botched devolution. Those who were British are now Scots, English, Welsh and Northern Irish. "

Perhaps in terms of law (which is frankly pretty much meaningless), but in terms of daily life and how people think of themselves, these identities have long coexisted for centuries.

[andy-hughes]

I`m with bednobs on this - I take no personal pride in being English / British because it is a fortunate accident of birth.

National pride tends to start international and political pi**in cntests which often end in armed conflict.

I am happy to occupy my particular part of the planet, but that does not give me a sense of pride or indeed superiority over any other parts, and the people who occupy them.

[jamesnan]

My husband calls himself 'Anglo-Saxon'

[Johnysid]

Kromo.. although the English and Scots may have thought of themselves as English and Scots when they were British this was just quaint folk memory. Real nationhood depends upon government. I have noticed on recent visits to Scotland that the Scots are becoming visibly more culturally Scots. This extends beyond the folk bands on the streets of Glasgow, it also reflects their politics. Their country has a definite air of a place where there is intensive state expenditure. The roads and public places are generally in excellent condition and the gaudy impact of private enterprise is far less than in the South East of England.

[Zeuhl]

I think that's an interesting semantic point andy.

Like you I expect, I am 'proud' of my own achiements. I can't take much credit for where I was born.

However, as NJ described so well earlier, most of us get a good feeling when our families, friends or associates do well and perhaps our nationhood is just a wider example of that.

Perhaps it's a different form to 'Personal' Pride?
Perhaps it's more of a 'Happy to be a part of and associated with' Pride.