Is Dylan telling the truth?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....ntry-escape-past.html

/// Dylan, 71, said: ‘If slavery had been given up in a more peaceful way, America would be far ahead today.’ ///

And how far ahead would they have been?

After all haven't they been to the moon, and haven't they got a black President, so he hasn't done so bad has he, all thanks to Grand-Papa Punch, or could he have done much better for himself if it hadn't been for slavery?

/// President Obama - the most powerful man in America - is himself believed to be descended from slaves. ///

/// Genealogists even claim that DNA analysis and marriage and property records suggest that Obama is the 11th great-grandchild of John Punch, the first black slave living in colonial Virginia nearly four centuries ago.///

[factor-fiction]

It's not about 'telling the truth' is it? It's just his opinion.

[emmie]

that is one man, Obama is the exception in many ways to the rule.
America will never truly rid itself of the stigma of slavery, neither can Britain. Had there been no enslavement of black people, then America would have been a completely different country, environment, people.
Surely the ones who should also have as much to shout about are the Native Americans.
One thing i found when i visited the USA some years ago was the level of poverty, truly shocking in such a wealthy nation.

[mike11111]

If I remember correctly Dylan always told the truth: "Crazy, man, just crazy"

[tonyav]

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind.

[doctordb]

Truth or not, i'm just gald he isn't singing it.

[doctordb]

glad. ^

[jno]

America wasn't exactly founded on slavery - English settlers and religious refugees, Spanish conquistadors and French explorers is more like it. But slavery was the basis of the soutehrn states'; wealth for a long time, since producing cotton was labour-intensive.

Even after it was abolished, there was more or less official colour discrimination until comparatively recently. But as aog says, they have in recent years done much to overturn it, to the extent that even the president is black. You can never change everyone's minds, but institutionally the country has done well in encouraging equal opportunity, and has a much larger black middle class than Britain is ever likely to.

[Bambiagain]

The day it stops being news that someone of mixed race (or anyone who is not male and of impecably white origin) can aspire to the position Obama is in will be the day progress really has been made.

[emmie]

wonder if that day will ever come.

[Zeuhl]

<‘If slavery had been given up in a more peaceful way, America would be far ahead today.’>

I'm not sure how that would have been possible. The whole economy of the Southern States was dependent on it and as anyone who has travelled through the South will testify, the after-effects continue to blight that part of america.

Some economists would argue that the only 'peaceful' way to end slavery is through the natural (and inevitable) process of it becoming economically unviable when in direct competition with a large, low-pay workforce.

If I was a farmer in east anglia today i would rather pay east europeans nupps to work hard at jobs they really want and not have to worry about their welfare or out of work issues rather than buy slaves and have to pay all their living costs and provide security to ensure i keep them working at jobs they don't want to do.

[Bambiagain]

Probably not, Em. Not in my lifetime, certainly.

[emmie]

Zeuhl, i don't think they were kept or used well. Slavery is, was a blight, a stain on our entwined histories,

[jno]

you might be setting the bar a bit high, bambi. "Firsts" will always be news. JFK was the first Catholic president, Romney may be the first Mormon one. There may be a first Hispanic, Asian or female one in a decade or two.

But ideally the second one of any of these won't cause any stir.

[emmie]

The fact remains that many black people in America are poor, not just don't have the latest gadget poor, but dirt poor, their lives haven't been made better by having a mixed race President in the Oval Office. And in many ways, they were the ones who put him where he is today. As i said i hadn't ever seen such poverty, and that was a truly shocking thing to me.

[Zeuhl]

em Indeed

an acknowledgement of a significant part of our history

(not to be confused with apologies and guilt before anyone starts banging that drum! :-)

[emmie]

no i don't think we need to go down that route.

[Zeuhl]

<i hadn't ever seen such poverty, and that was a truly shocking thing to me. >

Me too. Obama's health reforms will fail and the blacks in the south of the richest nation on earth will still be using hospitals of a third world standard

[Kerosene]

He also puts it down to people being "of a different color".

So what has been the excuse in Northern Ireland OR Iraq OR Afghanistan OR Sri Lanka OR countless African countries ad nauseum?

[McMouse]

/// Dylan, 71, said: ‘If slavery had been given up in a more peaceful way, America would be far ahead today.’ ///

Probably and if the Visigoths hadn't sacked Rome and effectively finished off the Roman Empire then Spain might be in better economic shape today.

[mike11111]

It is at times like this when you realise that supposedly mature adults fail to distinguish between Dylan the folk singer and Dylan the rabbit from the Magic Roundabout, that you really begin to feel your age.