Are we "shackled to a corpse"?

[KerrAvon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../uk-politics-20085437
If we are we do have the key to the shackles, can we unlock ourselves?

[Sqad]

It matters not a dam whether the UK comes out of the EU...........if the EU folds, then so does the UK...in OR out.

[emmie]

really, wonder what happened before they invented the EU, or EEC as it was then known.

[jno]

what happened before the EU?

er, world war?

[KerrAvon]

Yes the standard answer of the Europhile, we must be in to prevent war! The common market was good enough for this. General cooperation and agreements. No need for Federalization.

[emmie]

but the EEC was for trade as i recall, not so we could have a European super state led by Germany.

[naomi24]

^^ Sounds about right.

[jno]

it's led by Germany because Britain was so half-hearted about it, thinking they didn't really need Europe because they had an Empire.

[emmie]

the politicians at the time knew the die was cast and that the Empire was finished, that wasn't reason to strike up another deal and enter into anything but trade agreements with the nations that they had been at war against. It was for trade that the EEC was formed, surely there is little resemblance to the EEC in today's EU.

[emmie]

We have essentially lost our way, and if anyone honestly thinks that if we pull out of the EU we are all doomed as Private Fraser would say, then i would say that you are quite wrong.

[jno]

it was rather more complicated than just being about trade. The underlying idea was to make France and Germany so dependent on each other -in particular German industry and French agriculture - that the two countries could never afford to go to war again (as they had done many times in the previous century). Britain could have shrugged and said "Not our problem", but having lost half a million or so lives in the war - and twice as many in WW1 - most Britons knew it was their problem. Alas, they decided to tackle it half-heartedly.

[Graham-W]

Without the free trade in the EU do you think we would have had all the foreign investment we have had over the years.
Purely in the car industry jobs would go if we left the EU.
The Honda factory in Swindon employs 3,400 people.
The Nissan factory in Sunderland employs 4,500 staff directly, and approximately 500 contracted, indirect staff.
In Derbyshire, Toyota has approximately 4000 employees on site at any one time.
There are also electronics factories in Wales and others.
All these jobs would be lost if we left the EU and no longer had free trade with Europe.

[naomi24]

jno, //it's led by Germany because Britain was so half-hearted about it, thinking they didn't really need Europe because they had an Empire.//

That’s not true. The UK’s original applications in 1963 and 1967 were rejected.

http://news.bbc.co.uk...d_2459000/2459167.stm

To answer the question, yes I think we are shackled to a corpse.

[emmie]

so we don't trade with other nations, only those in the EU, that seems odd to me. Suggest it's sabre rattling to suggest we would all go to hell in a handcart if Britain left the EU. The EU as it stands does not benefit all, we are picking up the tab for all the mismanagement of the tinpot nations that have been allowed to join in the fun, like Greece, who seem to be going the way of the dodo.

[emmie]

Naomi is quite correct, it was Charles De Gaulle's well documented refusal to have us as partners that kept us out.

[emmie]

and Honda and Nissan are Japanese aren't they?

[youngmafbog]

Preventing war was one of the prime reasons for many of the original countries joining it, mainly the Benelux, French etc.

Britain, being an Island does not have the same need, bit difficult to get panzers over the channel, not quite as easy as Poland) so the scream of the Europhile stating this is simply frightening tactics.

There is absolutley no reason why the UK cannot pull out. Membership costs us millions and we get little back. Germany and the UK are proping up the whole sorry mess (Its only just recently the the French have started paying more than they take out). In addition our exports to Europe are less than our imports so you can bet your bottom dollar Europe would be only too keen to deal with us (The whole original idea of the common market).

Of course, I suspect that the UK pulling out would collapse the EU since that wold leave the Germans paying and running the whole show.

Oh, isnt that what they wanted and had two world wars for ?

So, you Europhiles, yes you have stopped war by everyone collaborating with Germany and in effect the Germans have won the war through stealth this time.

[KerrAvon]

All we'd have to do is make ourselves more attractive to business. Easy, especially when EU is essentially a socialist bloc.

[KerrAvon]

and yes jno far from being half hearted naomi correctly points out that we were rejected in the early days. That's the last good thing they've ever done!

[Graham-W]

Em10.
Yes, Honda and Nissan are Japanese. What I said was, we wouldn't have got the foreign investments into the UK if we were not in the EU and had free trade with the EU.

[emmie]

the corpse is rotten to the core and most sensible people know it