Dale Cregan

[fbg40]

This person has today been sentenced for 4 murders, two were the WPCs in Manchester. Judge stated he will die in prison. Why should we pay to keep him in prison ? Realise there are lots of schools of thought but would like to read your comments. Thanks.
FBG40

[murraymints]

Z....you agree his actions were heinous unacceptable etc. So how do you think people will react and what they want or deem to be fair or suitable punishment ?...would you have quite the same stance had your mum sister been his victims ? I think not...please do not try to be so idealistic this is Not utopia...

[murraymints]

And...it does you NO favours to disrespect other respected abers...!

[sir.prize]

murraymints - it seems you comment was unworthy of response.

Maybe it was too difficult for a know-all to decipher. Ahh never mind.

[murraymints]

Sir...I did not like his response and lack of respect to you..we all have a right to valid response..but mindless...in my opinion..knee jerk is not good..

[Zeuhl]

murray

why are you so dismissive of 'ideals'

they are what separate us from barbarism

also, you must realise the 'if it was your sister ...' argument is complete nonsense. If anyone of us was directly involved in any case our responses would be extreme - quite naturally

Do you want to live in a society where laws and punishments are set by the emotionally upset victim - or by an objective and rational judiciary

The former situation will lead to what was famously described as 'people getting shot for pissing on someone's lawn'

Banging up Cregan in some sh1t hole for the rest of his life is the best 'response' we have

He is the Killer - and we are not

because we are better than him - sorry if that notion is too idealistic

[Zeuhl]

/Sir...I did not like his response and lack of respect to you..we all have a right to valid response..but mindless...in my opinion..knee jerk is not good../

so how is calling another ABer /stupid/ respectful?

how is it respectful to accuse another ABer of not reading or thinking about a post properly

- but not explaining how or why?

I suspect some people on here are full of 'you-know-what':

and it ain't me.

[murraymints]

The best we have does not necessarily mean best or most suitable valid or worthy....but if life is so cheap to he that takes...then equally so applies !...

[sir.prize]

murraymints - thanks for the support. The latest tirade is peppered with swear words I see . . . could that be described as vocabulary challenged?

[Zeuhl]

/murraymints - it seems you comment was unworthy of response. Maybe it was too difficult for a know-all to decipher/

Surely anyone who thought about their posts would realise 3 minutes is a bit early for that call.

poor show for a /respected/ person like sir.prize

[andres]

When it is proved without a shadow of a doubt that a person has committed murder I would like to see the death penalty brought back. Not for revenge but justice for the innocent victims. When people say that this brings us down to the same level as the murderer ,I disagree.The state would not be killing an innocent person. We cannot keep filling the prisons with more and more murderers. I don't think people realise when they say ---'Let them rot in prison,the other prisoners will sort them out'', that they are actually condoning torture as a means of punishment.Which is better -a quick lethal injection or a lifetime of torture?And if you say -''Torture them'',does this make you a better person than the ones who prefer Capital punishment?

[Zeuhl]

/peppered with swear words I see /

such as?

Go on sir.prize - identify them

I would hate you to look really stupid

[tonyav]

Hang him.

[murraymints]

Sir....don't validate or justify yourself....no need to the fair and realistic minds here on AB....I bid you goodnight sir and look forward to further conversation on another thread....and z..goodnight to you also...

[Zeuhl]

/'Let them rot in prison,the other prisoners will sort them out'/

andres - no one has suggested that

/but justice for the innocent victims/ sorry; what does that actually mean? the 'victims' are (regrettably) gone - it is down to us as a society to decide the appropriate justice.

the choice is simple - you either believe killing another person is ok in certain circumstances

or you believe killing is wrong

clearly Cregan fits the first group - i'm in the second group

where are you?

/We cannot keep filling the prisons with more and more murderers/

we're not.

the vast majority of our bloated prison population is not murderers.

[Zeuhl]

goodnight murray

But sorry you encouraged sir.prize's unsubstantiated accusations, rudeness and cowardice in failing to step up to reasonable challenges

anyway, dinner awaits .....

[andy-hughes]

Zeuhl - you and I are in firm agreement, for the same reasons, but like you, I have been idealistic for putting forward that view.

So be it - an ideal is something to work towards, it is idealism that means we don't bait bears or put children up chimneys.

I will take being an idealist against murder in any form any time over the notion that capital punishment represents 'justice'.

[sir.prize]

Goodnight murraymints, chat soon.

[jno]

agree, andy and Zeuhl.

If taking life is wrong, then taking life is wrong.

[atalanta]

Although I haven't entirely abandoned my support for capital punishment ( I could argue special cases at some other time/place) it occurs to me that the British isles have an awful lot of islands. Many are small and uninhabited. We might consider giving whole-life prisoners a small island to themselves, a hut, some firewood and an occasional drop of groceries. One island which comes to mind is Gruinard, which seems particularly well suited to psychopathic murderers, considering its wartime history.

[Peter Pedant]

Gruinard I should explain to young southerners
was infected with anthrax in 1940

featured inaccurately in Foyle this week ( a bit garbled: streptomycin wasnt out then )

and was obviously infected (still: anthrax spores are VERY stable )
until a few years ago when the whole of the topsoil was replaced.


.... or Rockall - no topsoil there and v wet and cold.