Well Now That Is Interesting!!

[RATTER15]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2342217/Pakistan-internet-users-Google-searches-gay-sex-despite-worlds-homophobic-countries.html

Who would have thought that!!

[naomi24]

Mikey, I'm rather pleased you don't have the editor's job here too.

[LazyGun]

Here is what I find most interesting about this story - Religions have informed us that homosexuality is unnatural, immoral, is learned behaviour, is a result of the permissive society and lax morals, that it is a choice and a sinful one at that. So one would expect that in those areas of the globe which are extremely thoelogical, where the general public are devout believers themselves, that such actions and such interests would be virtually non-existent.

What such an observation actually shows is that this is an incorrect assumption - that homosexuality is not just a lifestyle choice borne out of a permissive society and lax morals - rather, it is as biology would suggest, a complext mixture of nature and nurture. More evidence, to me, that religion is both regressive and outdated......

[naomi24]

Fred, this is not a fear of any particular race – but of the perceived prospect of the imposition of the restrictive tenets of Islam upon currently free societies. As has been said many times, Islam is not simply a religion – it dictates every aspect of its adherents’ lives – even to the correct procedures for using the toilet – and therefore signs calling for the introduction of Sharia law into the UK being stuck to telegraph poles, and poppy burners aside, with the turmoil that is the Middle East and further afield, the appalling acts of terrorism the world has experienced over recent years, and the current influx into the west of Muslims who bring their culture with them, and retain it, I’m not sure the fear is entirely irrational. I don’t believe it is the deliberate intention of most people who recognise that Islam is not simply a religion to spread fear – I think their personal concerns are absolutely genuine.

[Octavius]

The gay sex thing is a side issue and one that the DM and ABers on here have really got there mocking teeth into.

Pakistan has been dubbed Pornistan for more than 10 years and compared to some of the seaches reportedly trending there, gay sex should be the least concern of any self righteous pontificating mouth-foaming evanglists.

Its not about religion.

[FredPuli43]

Naomi,the irrational part being promulgated is that the Muslims will outnumber the rest of us here and that we shall all be forced to comply with Sharia law. Someone on AB said that people who objected to that view would regret it when they were all walking with their wives three paces behind them. That is pure paranoid fantasy. And that type of thinking and statement is what I was referring to.

That is quite distinct from thinking and saying that fundamentalist Islamists present a danger. We didn't need 9/11 to show us that and later events have confirmed it. The danger may be increasing.

[RATTER15]

Mikey, people are objecting to their religion and practices not the people themselves, I detest Islam and their laws as I have made that quite obvious. I have no problem at all with these people, just their beliefs and practices.

[Gromit]

Jewish religious courts have been in this country for more than a century. They work within the law. There is no reason why the Islamic community cannot arbitrate of disputes amongst its followers in the same fashion. 80 years ago the Daily Mail and polite society were obsessed with the Jewish menace taking over. What we do have today is a Jewish community that has successfully integrated into all branches of society from Parliament, the Arts, Judiciary, Police etc. I suspect that is how the muslims in the UK story will play out.

I am sure there are far right extremists who are still unhappy about the Jews, but they are wrong. Just as the people fretting about the Islamic menace will be wrong.

[Gromit]

RATTER

It is a mistake to call them Islamic Laws. They are suggestions of how to live your life (if you are a muslim) rather like the 10 Commandments in christianity. They carry no legal weight (except where the judicial law has mirrored it such as not stealing).

Any requirement from a religious book is only a guide to its membership. Nothing in the Koran is the law. People who want to live that way have taken a choice. There are occassions where the religious edicts coflict with the law of the land, for example over homosexuality. In such an instance, the law of the land takes precidence and the religious followers must obey the law.

[mushroom25]

//There are occassions where the religious edicts coflict with the law of the land, for example over homosexuality. In such an instance, the law of the land takes precidence and the religious followers must obey the law. //

so how is it that Halal slaughterhouses are permitted to exist - there are laws against animal cruelty, aren't there?

[Octavius]

mushroom, all food animals in the UK are killed by having their throats cut, the issue is whether they are stunned first. The UK have not yet gone so far to say that slaughter without prior stunning should be banned completely which tends to happen more often in Kosher or Halal meat production. Although, its just as likely to happen as a result of bad practice or genuine cruelty.

[Zeuhl]

Islamophobia is an interesting phenomenon

I am directly opposed to the characteristics of Islam (well almost all religions really) and would actively resist any attempt by the 5% of Britons who are Muslim to impose their ideas on me or my behaviour.

However, we must acknowledge that Islam has been 'threatening to take over' in Europe for about 1300 years.

That's a long time and they don't seem to have made much progress.

[jno]

they've rather gone backwards since the days they ruled Spain and their armies were at the gates of Vienna (though I believe they left the notion of coffee shops behind them in the latter case).

[sandyRoe]

The best they'd done so far is to get to the gates of Vienna and the foothills of the Pyrenees. But the tide of Islamification seems to be at a low ebb at the moment whatever many here may think.

[sandyRoe]

it would be sad, indeed, if the croissant was their only legacy

[jno]

Moorish Spain was by all accounts a much more enlightened place than under the regimes that followed it.

[chrisgel]

Mikey4444 - I thought that this issue has been well and truly thrashed out on AB and elsewhere. Much as some would love to use the current "Race" laws to stifle criticism of Islam, it can't be done. Islam is not a race it is a religion and it's adherents come from many races.
Speaking for myself, I am not afraid of Islam because I believe it will not cause me any serious problems In the time I have left.
I do think it my responsibility however to protest when actions are taken by Muslims that are incompatible with a free democratic society. All these things that have been listed many times on here misogyny, female genital mutilation, homophobia, child brides etc. etc. are, as stated, incompatible with our society. If it is not made clear to Muslims that these attitudes and actions are not acceptable then in the future they may become acceptable and I do worry that my grandchildren will grow up in a less tolerant and more repressive society.
Because of this I have no intention of being browbeaten into silence and make no apology for repeating my concerns whenever the subject is raised.

[Octavius]

So you encourage them in searching for gay porn on google then?

[emmie]

zeuhl, you have to admit with the advent of easy mobility, trains, planes and automobiles, people move with ease across the world, settling in places they wouldn't or couldn't have done once upon a time, financially constrained or indeed because of border constraints, now that has virtually gone, almost anyone can settle any place they choose, and many have come from the sub continent and Africa, to settle into many countries in Europe, including UK, and they have had an impact on the populations already established. If many are adherents to Islam, it's not without some concern that the spread of Islam is far more widespread, that we have seen with a number of home grown fanatics that their way is the only way. Moderate peoples can be led into following others with a more serious and sinister agenda, haven't we seen this all before.

[emmie]

i wouldn't say that this was enlightenment,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors

[AB Editor]

I saw that, Ratter, gave me a good chuckle. It's a bit like the stat that Iran is one of the top three places to get a sex change.

"I can't understand why the Editor doesn't do something about it."

We let all opinions be aired, as long as they're not abusive.