Another Shocking Story To Come Out Of Pakistan.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351836/Smiling-sisters-shot-dead-dancing-rain-Pakistani-girls-15-16-killed-mother-making-video-stained-family-honour.html

/// The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan said at least 943 women and girls were murdered in 2011 for allegedly defaming their family’s honour. ///

Why is it always the girls who are punished for staining their families honour?

It is a pity they don't carry out such punishment on their men then there would be no need to crowd our jails with those evil gangs of child abusers.

[Davethedog]

Again your walking away from the point, the Mau Mau uprising was a war of independence, again its organised violence and it was attritional, one side against the other. Indeed you can argue that each side reacted the way they did because of the others actions.

Honour killing, is the acceptance of the many (Islam) of murder against an individual or individuals.

The Mau Mau had as much to do(in common) with honour killing as The Queen has with Rugby.

[jim360]

They may be radically different, but I think they come from the same place of what is basic human nature.

[naomi24]

Jim, this practice does not arise as a result of ‘basic human nature’. It emanates from a ghastly ancient, backward, misogynistic philosophy that is drummed into its adherents from the day they are born. Whilst, as far as I am aware, neither the Koran nor the hadith directly instruct honour killing as such, the Koran does recommend that women who bring disgrace should be confined to their houses until they die, and in some areas certain perceived 'crimes' are still punishable by stoning the ‘guilty’ and often the not so guilty to death. Mohammed’s view of women was that they are deficient in intelligence and objects of shame, and for some Muslims the only way to find recompense for perceived disgrace brought upon a family is to remove the cause of that shame – in this instance, the women. You are sadly mistaken in assuming that people who carry out these barbaric acts possess a mindset similar to your own, or to that of anyone raised in a western culture. They do not. They are indoctrinated into an appallingly backward philosophy, and every single aspect of their lives is governed by that philosophy – including the perception that women are not only less worthy than men, but they are the property of men to do with as they will. The Koran and its author, Mohammed, are revered by Muslims and considered to be beyond criticism – which is a great pity – because in any civilised society, both leave much to be desired.

[emmie]

i confess i wouldn't, couldn't have put that better. ^^

[viv38]

Me neither.

[emmie]

if i had the gumption i would post the pictures of the women who had been scarred for life by having acid thrown over them by errant husbands or even the family of the husband, it is a shocking indictment of societies acceptance of women being the chattel of men, to do with as they will, no matter the consequences, and for them it isn't necessarily jail or even condemnation from the authorities.

[jim360]

I might believe you, Naomi, if you could demonstrate that this sort of behaviour was confined to Islam -- or, perhaps less restrictively, to religions in general. But at all levels it isn't. Honour-killing of children is a specific manifestation that is perhaps unique to Islam, at least at the present time.

Humans need very little excuse to be nasty. That is just what history teaches us more than anything else. To blame Islam -- and, by extension, to assume that Islam or religion is the actual, main problem primarily responsible for such acts of evil -- is to misread history. It's just an excuse. Or, if honour-killing disappears with Islam, then some other evil will take its place.

[naomi24]

Jim, I didn’t say it is confined to Islam, nor to religions in general, but Islam is not simply a religion, and while honour killings occur in other societies, they are more prevalent by far within the Islamic culture – for the reasons I’ve given. You don’t seem to be able to understand either the perception of women, or their social status within the wholly misogynistic culture we’re talking about – but perhaps you don’t want to. Ask yourself this. If honour killings result from the human nature you claim we all share, why aren’t they as prevalent in other societies? You keep banging on about history, but fail to recognise that whilst the rest of the world in general has moved on and away from the ancient barbaric practices of the past, fundamentalist Islam hasn’t – and that is the problem.

Please explain what you mean by ‘It’s just an excuse’. What is just an excuse?

[keyplus90]

Did I expect anything else?

[naomi24]

Doubt it, Keyplus. Why would you? You know it's true.

[keyplus90]

No. Because I know that you people are bias.

[DTCwordfan]

We are factualists, keyplus, realists, so let's read your perspective on this.

[keyplus90]

////We are factualists////

You did make me laugh there. So thanks for that.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, yes, you’re right. I am biased. I'm biased against misogynistic, bullying, controlling, arrogant men whose heads are stuck in the Dark Ages. You see, unlike you, I recognise that Islam has an appalling record in its attitude towards women, and again unlike you, I'm wholly in support of those women gaining the respect that every human being is entitled to, but which Islam most shamefully denies them.

[DTCwordfan]

Aaaah, naomi, but you and I do look at things factually, well most of the time, and opinionate on the weight of the arguments and data presented, yes also taking account of history.

We do not wrap it up in the shrouds of religion which is what keyplus and other Muslims do with Islam, (or others do on here be they Catholic, JWs whoever), Islam now being more than just a religion and, as such, very dangerous. And this argument of yours, keyplus, goes to the very heart of equality for women and, as you well know, is heavily and wrongly impacted on by so called leaders and scribes of your faith who have chosen to misinterpret the Koran.

[keyplus90]

I agree with you for few things you put there but again you are blaming a religion that according to your own self does not promote or support honour killing. So you have to get your facts right. You either don’t say this,

////Whilst, as far as I am aware, neither the Koran nor the hadith directly instruct honour killing as such,////

Or you don’t say this,
////Islam has an appalling record in its attitude towards women////

First of all very clearly you can’t differentiate between a religion and a handful followers who in fact do not act upon their religion and then more strangely you can’t remember your own history and how women have been and are being treated here. Or shall I ask that old same question again. Why so many western women are entering Islam if it does not treat women nicely and I know you would say that is due to the reason that they are marrying Muslims. But then there is no sense again that why are they marrying the people who do not treat women properly? None of you assumptions make sense does it?

[naomi24]

DT, but you made him laugh. You see, he does like a joke. Did you know he once advised me to try wearing a burqa, assuring me that my husband would still love me? Great sense of humour, that fella! ;o)

[keyplus90]

////DTCwordfan
Aaaah, naomi, but you and I do look at things factually, well most of the time, and opinionate on the weight of the arguments and data presented, yes also taking account of history.

We do not wrap it up in the shrouds of religion which is what keyplus and other Muslims do with Islam,////

One atheist praising another one. A very well-known stunt.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, I have got my facts right – and you’re talking nonsense. The two quotes you’ve highlighted are not connected. Neither the Koran nor the hadith directly instruct honour killing, nevertheless, both quite openly promote an appalling attitude towards women.

Why do western women marry Muslims? For the same reason they marry people from many other cultures. Because they’re smitten by the love bug.

No stunts Keyplus. As you've been told many times, no one here is conspiring.

[keyplus90]

Ok, I will let you get away once again.