News0 min ago
Britain Needs Millions More Immigrants
// Britain may need millions more immigrants over the next 50 years to reduce the "unsustainable" pressure that the ageing population is putting on the economy, the Office for Budget Responsibility has said. //
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Bummer?
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Bummer?
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I think the answer is to remove all benefits for the elderly, since they are the problem. They take up far too many NHS beds, require pension payments for decades, and then they have the cheek to demand money in winter because they're feeling the cold. Why don't they just put more clothes on?
This shouldn't be implemented while I'm still alilve, obviously.
This shouldn't be implemented while I'm still alilve, obviously.
One of our regular AB-ers has expressed similar views (that we can only sustain an ageing population by importing more people).
As I said many times in reply to him, he may have overlooked the inconvenient fact that the newcomers will eventually, …er…. get old themselves. Leaving aside the fact that the immigrants will have to be housed, have medical and educational facilities provided for them and the trivial matter that at present there are upwards of two million unemployed already here, there is a strong liklihood that much of the cash they may possibly generate will be sent “home”.
The Office of Budget Responsibility’s graph suggests that the country will only get out of debt if it imports huge numbers of people (and the numbers in their chart are huge). It’s about as sensible as suggesting that cats should have dozens of kittens each because many of them end up in a sack at the bottom of the canal. The logic(if you can call it that) defies belief.
As I said many times in reply to him, he may have overlooked the inconvenient fact that the newcomers will eventually, …er…. get old themselves. Leaving aside the fact that the immigrants will have to be housed, have medical and educational facilities provided for them and the trivial matter that at present there are upwards of two million unemployed already here, there is a strong liklihood that much of the cash they may possibly generate will be sent “home”.
The Office of Budget Responsibility’s graph suggests that the country will only get out of debt if it imports huge numbers of people (and the numbers in their chart are huge). It’s about as sensible as suggesting that cats should have dozens of kittens each because many of them end up in a sack at the bottom of the canal. The logic(if you can call it that) defies belief.
But the welfare state is - and always was - a numbers game.
You leave school at 14, 15, 16, or 18 (depending on era)
You work for 40-45 years, while paying in a few % of salary in NI conts
You draw retirement pension for an average of 7 years (in the 40s/50's)
Medical cover, cradle to grave and a pension based on a government statistician's best guess about how long you and others of your generation will live.
The medical service has extended our lifespans and the statisticians should really have begun revising their lifespan guesses (annuity rate calculations) 40 years ago. Unfortunately MPs pay scales are based on Civil Service pay scales and the government statisticians evidently didn't dare to tweak the status quo.
The only way out of this mess is to return to the conditions when the welfare state began and simply make sure that the workforce always outnumbers the retired population.
//I would prefer the indigenous population made more of an effort. //
I think everyone is already nose to the grindstone, trying not to slip up at work and get sacked. What more can they do?
You leave school at 14, 15, 16, or 18 (depending on era)
You work for 40-45 years, while paying in a few % of salary in NI conts
You draw retirement pension for an average of 7 years (in the 40s/50's)
Medical cover, cradle to grave and a pension based on a government statistician's best guess about how long you and others of your generation will live.
The medical service has extended our lifespans and the statisticians should really have begun revising their lifespan guesses (annuity rate calculations) 40 years ago. Unfortunately MPs pay scales are based on Civil Service pay scales and the government statisticians evidently didn't dare to tweak the status quo.
The only way out of this mess is to return to the conditions when the welfare state began and simply make sure that the workforce always outnumbers the retired population.
//I would prefer the indigenous population made more of an effort. //
I think everyone is already nose to the grindstone, trying not to slip up at work and get sacked. What more can they do?
////I think the answer is to remove all benefits for the elderly, since they are the problem. They take up far too many NHS beds, require pension payments for decades, and then they have the cheek to demand money in winter because they're feeling the cold. Why don't they just put more clothes on?////
Lucky, I did not say that otherwise tomorrow's daily mail would have a mian headline, "A Muslims fanatic wants our elderly people stripped of their benefits, medical and winter fuel aloowance.................."
Lucky, I did not say that otherwise tomorrow's daily mail would have a mian headline, "A Muslims fanatic wants our elderly people stripped of their benefits, medical and winter fuel aloowance.................."
Yup - but we need the 'right sort' of immigrants
People coming over earning money and sending it home does us no favours.
The visa system needs to be re-engineered to favour high skilled people to come over and settle with their famillies.
I have this very issue right now trying to get one of my highly skilled staff over here - easier to get him here on a 5 year visa and than for him to come and settle with his familly.
Total madness
People coming over earning money and sending it home does us no favours.
The visa system needs to be re-engineered to favour high skilled people to come over and settle with their famillies.
I have this very issue right now trying to get one of my highly skilled staff over here - easier to get him here on a 5 year visa and than for him to come and settle with his familly.
Total madness
Oh as to NJ's point about the immigrants ageing too
The inconvenient truth for him is that without immigration our population would be shrinking!
Infrastructure like hospitals are largely struggling from under-staffing and as anybody will tell you the NHS and care homes etc. are massively dependant on immigrant workers.
Maybe one day we will recognise that the best way to serve your country is not by grabbing a rifle and running off to shoot people thousands of miles away but to care for your elderly and mentally ill countrymen at home.
The inconvenient truth for him is that without immigration our population would be shrinking!
Infrastructure like hospitals are largely struggling from under-staffing and as anybody will tell you the NHS and care homes etc. are massively dependant on immigrant workers.
Maybe one day we will recognise that the best way to serve your country is not by grabbing a rifle and running off to shoot people thousands of miles away but to care for your elderly and mentally ill countrymen at home.
Not this utter nonsense yet again ?
All that is needed is for sufficient folk in work to generate enough wealth to cover the costs of the community. And since we never have full employment the last thing any sane person should advocate is adding more folk to raise competition for the limited number of job positions available at any one time. ~We have more than we can find jobs for already.
And there are moral implications about attracting skilled labour from parts of the world that need those skills for themselves.
If an aging population means more pensioners, then that implies less completion for the younger folk to make their contribution. Just this morning the morning TV was interviewing young folk who can not find a job. And yet the idiots in power still try to force older folk to retain their workplaces by denying them years of pension they were expecting from agreements made when they started their adult employed life.
If government can't even work out the consequences of the tripe the advisers come up with then there is no hope for society.
All that is needed is for sufficient folk in work to generate enough wealth to cover the costs of the community. And since we never have full employment the last thing any sane person should advocate is adding more folk to raise competition for the limited number of job positions available at any one time. ~We have more than we can find jobs for already.
And there are moral implications about attracting skilled labour from parts of the world that need those skills for themselves.
If an aging population means more pensioners, then that implies less completion for the younger folk to make their contribution. Just this morning the morning TV was interviewing young folk who can not find a job. And yet the idiots in power still try to force older folk to retain their workplaces by denying them years of pension they were expecting from agreements made when they started their adult employed life.
If government can't even work out the consequences of the tripe the advisers come up with then there is no hope for society.
@OldGeezer
//And yet the idiots in power still try to force older folk to retain their workplaces by denying them years of pension they were expecting from agreements made when they started their adult employed life.//
Yup. Contract breach in progress between the state and the worker times 'nn' million with employer/employee contract breaches to match. But we all acknowledge there can be no mis-selling or restorative action without ruining what's left of the country so we all have to roll over and accept what we're given.
In the meantime, what do people think about saving up for retirement (meaning money not going into the wider economy, with VAT scoops being taken out of it) versus the 'feckless' approach of living it up, spending it while you've got it (paying VAT and other taxes all the way) and then showing empty pockets at means-testing time, after retirement?
Or is that a separate thread?
//And yet the idiots in power still try to force older folk to retain their workplaces by denying them years of pension they were expecting from agreements made when they started their adult employed life.//
Yup. Contract breach in progress between the state and the worker times 'nn' million with employer/employee contract breaches to match. But we all acknowledge there can be no mis-selling or restorative action without ruining what's left of the country so we all have to roll over and accept what we're given.
In the meantime, what do people think about saving up for retirement (meaning money not going into the wider economy, with VAT scoops being taken out of it) versus the 'feckless' approach of living it up, spending it while you've got it (paying VAT and other taxes all the way) and then showing empty pockets at means-testing time, after retirement?
Or is that a separate thread?
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