Andrew Mitchell

[Just-Jude]

Police officers found to be lying yet again! If they're willing to stitch up a senior Tory MP, what chance have ordinary members of the public got?

With the Met now so corrupt and seeing itself as above the law, does anyone still think it's fit for purpose?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24536328

[LazyGun]

@H "How the heck does anyone get all the way through school as far as... what? A levels?... without becoming acquainted with what 'pleb' means?

Heck, even if you pay no attention in class then you'd still come across the word from watching TV often enough"

Who is this directed at?

[Graham-W]

Given the choice between G4 and the Police, I'd choose the police every time. The policing by G4 seems to have been put on the back burner following the Olympics fiasco.

[Milvus]

What has G4 got to do with the fact that police officers lied and their federation reps lied in this case Graham?

[Hypognosis]

@LG

Okay, I'll re-word that.

How does anyone get far enough through scholl and/or life to become a police officer without ever encountering the word 'pleb'?

As jno alluded, it's not possible to perceive a word as an insult without knowing what the word means (let alone how it's spelled).

[Graham-W]

All I'm saying is, although the police do appear to have lied on this occasion, I think the police, in general, are more trustworthy than a possible alternative.

[Hypognosis]

erm, not "scholl" but "skule"

;-)

[Hopkirk]

I am not the least embarrassed that West Brom can boast Cat Deeley, Eric Clapton, Goran Ivanišević, John McEnroe, Frank Skinner, Adrian Chiles and Betty Boothroyd.

[LazyGun]

@ Hypo Maybe, maybe not. Can you think of a single word more likely to be toxic to the tories though? One that more naturally just kind of fits the narrative of a spoilt, richboy public school toff? That would could a greater fuss?

If false, and crafted by a copper as a means of discrediting a Tory minister, it was extremely well chosen.Not something that automatically comes to mind under those conditions, in those circumstances.

Such an individual would have a great career as a spin-doctor.

[Hopkirk]

Oops

[mikey4444]

Graham-W....I am intrigued....if you accept that the Police have lied and lied and lied over this case, just what alternative do you think would be better ?

The Gestapo perhaps, or the Stasi maybe ?

[askyourgran]

Pleb was not a word used when I was a school, even much later. The University of life teaches people those things.

[Graham-W]

Although you give me very little in the way of alternatives, you seem to misunderstand. I'm not looking for alternatives. I believe we have no alternatives than the current police force. A little cleaning and dusting round the edges and some more complete monitoring would probably do.
Who watches the watchers?

[mikey4444]

Askyorgran....I think you will find that in this case, it was the Police School at Hendon that taught the Pleb word !

[askyourgran]

lol mikey. It could be in the Police manual under 'How to make your career more interesting.'

[DTCwordfan]

Mikey - yes, I accept that 'truth' has gained - but Mitchell is still slurred and the Police, well a joke. I would caution that not all the police are like this though - and that we should remember. After all, haven't there always been bent coppers? One just hopes that they ferret them out.

As to Mitchell, he will only have his veil lifted when the police concerned apologise.

[mikey4444]

Graham-W..... as you say, Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

But in this case, that question is easily answered... it is the IPCC that watches. That is why they were set up, because the Police have shown themselves to be too corrupt and/or inept to investigate themselves. The important word in IPCC is Independent.

But the Police have chosen to disregard the findings of the IPCC, because they are arrogant enough not to consider it important enough to pay much attention to. Which is why we discussing this on AB today.

If only it was just a case of a little light dusting and cleaning around the edges that is required. It would seem that a full drains-up exercise is required.

We are just about to see the Hillsboro Disaster Enquiry re-open. The main point of the investigation is how dozens of Police statements had been altered. This is perjury, plain and simple. The justice system has traditionally treated perjury as a very serious offence indeed. The Policemen involved face a real chance of going to prison...its that serious.

The Police seem to have reached the conclusion, that they are too big and important to fail, and therefore they can continue to lie, cheat and commit perjury with impunity, because "there is no alternative" They are being hoisted by their own petards here and don't even seem to have the wit or intelligence to see that they are staring into the barrel of a rather large gun.

When the Plebgate affair is finally brought to court, the Metropolitan Police will be laid completely bare, and they will have all the credibility of a bunch of crooks, which is how they behaving at the moment.The effect on the way that law is administered in London will be effected for a long time to come.

The result of this is that they will have lost any small remaining bit of dignity that they still possess.

[Orderlimit]

Mikey, it would probably be a good idea if you googled the definition of perjury and see what it means.

[Milvus]

That's a great answer Mikey

[Hypognosis]

^^^ (mikey @22:22) ((((applause))))

@LazyGun
//Can you think of a single word more likely to be toxic to the tories though?//

I can't. I'm sure the citizens of Eton and Harrow are tired of 'accidentally' having to overhear it used in their direction. :-/

//One that more naturally just kind of fits the narrative of a spoilt, richboy public school toff? That would could a greater fuss?//

Uh-huh. I hinted thus. ;-)

//If false, and crafted by a copper as a means of discrediting a Tory minister, it was extremely well chosen.Not something that automatically comes to mind under those conditions, in those circumstances.

Such an individual would have a great career as a spin-doctor. //

Oh. I geddit now. I presume you're suggesting that the Downing Street coppers were merely miffed about the "I thought you people were here to effing help us?", reported it to their superiors by way of __filing a grievance report__ causing it to travel up the management chain and the arch spin doctor, who you're hinting at, someone in a senior grade got everyone into a conflab to get their stories synchronised - all before anyone rang the papers?

I was merely arguing that none of us should under-estimate the knowledge and capabilities of the officers on the ground. I mean, their looking after Downing Street, so you'd want them to be the smarter ones of the bunch. So I'm suggesting that they were -capable- of doing a character assassination on Mitchell off their own bats but that doesn't necessarily mean that they did.

Basically, if you're in a job which has kudos, danger, excitement and don't want to get sidelined into more boring duties, you would generally go out of your way to -not- rock the boat. No?

[Peter Pedant]

and in case anyone wonders if the IPCC have exceeded their powers in this:
here is a case about it:
http://publicregulatoryblog.ffw.com/2013/r-on-the-application-of-the-chief-constable-of-the-west-yorkshire-police-and-independent-police-complaints-commission-and-police-constable-lee-armstrong