Royal Marine Convicted Of Murder

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24877081

Just heard two people being interviewed on the Today program about this.
One of them suggested at perhaps 5 years would be ok for this murderer.
Given that there is a current discussion on AB this morning about the 18 years doled out to another murderer, What do people think about this ?

I realise that the two crimes are vastly different.

[Zacs-Master]

In my opinion it's not just murder, it's virtually treason. To hand such a situation to our enemies who can use it as propaganda is at total odds to what this soldier was employed to do. They should give him the maximum sentence possible.

[sandyRoe]

I'm reminded of 'Breaker' Morant. Could there be a book or a film in this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaker_Morant
I said in an earlier post that he'd be unlikely to serve more than a couple of years and still believe that.

[mikey4444]

Perhaps someone can enlighten us on how sentencing works in Military Courts ( Fred perhaps ? )

Do the same rules on parole apply for instance ?

[douglas9401]

I have some sympathy for the shorter option in the case of the Marine for the very reason that the crimes are so different.
Living with the constant treat of death or serious injury as a real possibility is bound to affect some more than others and drive them to do things they would not normally consider.
He clearly wasn't thinking straight, especially as he knew there were cameras rolling the whole time.

[FredPuli43]

The practice may changed now, but every sentence and finding had to be confirmed by the commanding officer. The idea was not just to act as a one man appeal court, but to judge the value of the soldier to the Army. If he was only man or one of a few, with special skill , or otherwise of great value,the Army may have found his being away from the field operationally devastating, he being more use to them in active service than in jail. So the first step was to petition that officer to have the findings not confirmed, and this was so whether or not there was any war or any action; it was done in times of peace.

However, short of not confirming the finding of murder, I don't think the officer could have done anything in a case like this, because the sentence is fixed by law, though the time served is not.

[FredPuli43]

mikey, your post wasn't there when I was typing. Sentence by Court Martial follows the same practice as civilian sentencing when it comes to jail terms, with the addition of being dismissed the Army. Though I did often feel the Army came first. By that I mean, it would bend over backwards to keep the misadventures of its soldiery out of the public eye, and it showed an enthusiasm for under charging offences or taking a plea of guilty to, of making a finding of, a lesser offence than the facts really warranted. So long as the man was thrown out of the Army and did some jail time, that was all that mattered !

[FredPuli43]

My favourite example of Army thinking. I had a man who was originally on for attempted murder, not surprisingly as he had cornered a sergeant who he hated, when armed with a shotgun and let fly from a few feet away. They accepted not attempted murder, not s18 wounding with intent to cause gbh, but assault occasioning accrual bodily harm! And the Brigadier in charge asked not what the accused's record was but what the victim's was, bellowing "Must be something wrong with a sergeant, if a corporal wants to shoot him !"

[RATTER15]

He should be treated the same as any other murderer, it says our soldiers cannot be trusted. Disgusting behavior.

[Gromit]

Life is an option.

Probably get 5 years, be out in 2 years.

Probably the second year of that in an open prison/hotel.

[friedgreentomato]

I agree with ratter this soldier is/was a British soldier we do bit train out soldiers to behave in that manner.
Now many of you will go on to say that it is no worse behaviour than the Taliban, to that I say the Taliban are. It trained British soldiers and as so many of you are keen to point out they are apparently savages!!

He should serve a full sentence

[pixie373]

I don't understand why there is more leniency shown here. This is someone who's been trained and should certainly be more aware. His own past and experience is surely irrelevant- unless he has been diagnosed with PTSD or similar?

[anotheoldgit]

I made similar remarks has put in this link regarding this case in the first post on this subject, headlined "Execution Of Prisoners".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2493591/We-wont-condemn-killer-Marine-Ex-Commando-chiefs-vow-soldier-WW2-convicted-murder-battle.html

At that time there were many who condemned these soldiers out of hand, but as time has gone on others have voiced similar feelings of trying to understand certain aspects of this case.

Now a senior army officer who has experienced what the armed forces have to go through, plus the reaction by other serving soldiers, should help to reverse the "lock him up and throw away the key" mentality shown by those who have never found themselves in anything like the situations that these soldiers have been forced to endure.

[ChillDoubt]

At that time there were many who condemned these soldiers out of hand, but as time has gone on others have voiced similar feelings of trying to understand certain aspects of this case.

Now a senior army officer who has experienced what the armed forces have to go through, plus the reaction by other serving soldiers, should help to reverse the "lock him up and throw away the key" mentality shown by those who have never found themselves in anything like the situations that these soldiers have been forced to endure.
--------------------------------
Hear, hear.
Without wishing to denigrate what is obviously a very serious offence, put it into persepective.
Marine A was an SNCO with some 6 tours under his belt.
Doubtless throughout that time he'd seen colleagues shot, blown up, maimed and mentally scarred.
He may well have been so himself. He finds an enemy combatant in his death throes (by most accounts).
This is no normal combatant in the true sense of old-style battlefield combat. This is someone who may befriend him in a village one day, then shoot at him the next. Who may use several devious means to lure him to his death in any other scenario.
He wasn't tortured before death but no doubt those who found him were indifferent to his situation, having seen their colleagues in similar circumstances on countless occasions.
Marine A's demeanour throughout suggested one of a battle hardened veteran, but also maybe one who had become de-sensitised as a result of being a 6 tour veteran.
I've no doubt the court will bear a lot of that in mind when sentencing.
We charge HM Forces with protecting us and our interests along with providing security. One or two step beyond the realms of what is deemed acceptable, but let's maybe think about how he has 'just got on with it' when faced with some of the sights most of us would baulk at.
Let's also not forget too that it is the first such case throughout the whole time HM Forces have served in Afghanistan, which is a truly remarkable statistic.

[grumpy01]

I have every sympathy with our servicemen and women who perform tours of duty in these very dangerous places.Without question they have performed their duties heroically and many have paid the ultimate sacrifice However the thing that bothers me in this case is why film it a la Saving Private Ryan.It seems that these sevicemen have tried to glorify something which may or may not have been pre meditated murder.

[jno]

If he was only man or one of a few, with special skill

I understand from some arguments I've seen that he had special skills in euthanasia and was putting a wounded enemy out of his misery.

The film was probably going to be used for training purposes so skills in mercy killing would not be lost.

[pixie373]

// I understand from some arguments I've seen that he had special skills in euthanasia and was putting a wounded enemy out of his misery. //

that is a joke?!

[jno]

pixie, from another thread:

"As for murder, it sounded more like a coup de grace to me and I expect an appeal almost immediately."

I did add a touch of sarcasm, though.

[pixie373]

Ah. Sorry, jno. He should have kept out of it, if that's true and saved himself the trouble.

[ChillDoubt]

However the thing that bothers me in this case is why film it a la Saving Private Ryan.It seems that these sevicemen have tried to glorify something which may or may not have been pre meditated murder.
----------------------
They didn't film it 'a la Private Ryan'. It wasn't scripted. Most patrols are filmed as a matter of course.
The soldiers in this 'scene' weren't filming it for dramatic effect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-B1F5izOIY&list=PLB239C36DF181837B

[emmie]

what he did was reprehensible, there is really no excuse, other than stress, to many tours of duty, but perhaps had they left the man where he was he could have died any way. A shot to the chest killed him, that is still murder.
i can't condone what he did.