Pendleside Festive Dingbats C/D 6Th Jan
Quizzes & Puzzles2 mins ago
Could This Go Some Way To Explain Why The Black People Are Over-Represented In Prison?
Every few months, we are reminded on AB, that as a percentage of the British population, blacks are over-represented in prison.
Could this report at least partially explain why?
http://
Obviously, it cannot be used to completely explain away the disparity - but should we not take this into consideration, especially when the matter is discussed?
Could this report at least partially explain why?
http://
Obviously, it cannot be used to completely explain away the disparity - but should we not take this into consideration, especially when the matter is discussed?
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I cannot find the report so it’s difficult to comment on its contents. But some of the comments in response to this question are interesting.
“…so I don't blame black people for feeling uneasy in the UK in a courtroom full of mostly white people.”
Pay a visit to a Magistrates’ court in an inner city where much of the population is not white, VHG. You will find large numbers of non-white advocates, witnesses and magistrates. Do the same in a Crown Court in similar locations and you will find many non-white jurors. You may often (though not always) find “most” of the people there white but that’s to be expected because, we are told, “most” of the population in many of these areas is white.
“…and I've never been to one as a spectator. “
Perhaps that’s the trouble, sp. You ought to pay one a visit. There you would see all manner of different people being sentenced (especially if you visited a Magistrates’ Court) and you could judge for yourself whether such bias is evident.
I find it difficult to understand how racial bias can influence sentencing, particularly concerning imprisonment from Magistrates’ courts. Magistrates’ sentencing guidelines are quite rigid and when deciding whether to impose custody rather than a community order it is usually quite clear from the details of the offence whether or not the custody threshold has been crossed. Magistrates are obliged by law to sentence in accordance with their guidelines or to make it known in open court why they have departed from them. And when I last looked there was not, among aggravating features relating either to offences or offenders, “defendant not white”.
“…so I don't blame black people for feeling uneasy in the UK in a courtroom full of mostly white people.”
Pay a visit to a Magistrates’ court in an inner city where much of the population is not white, VHG. You will find large numbers of non-white advocates, witnesses and magistrates. Do the same in a Crown Court in similar locations and you will find many non-white jurors. You may often (though not always) find “most” of the people there white but that’s to be expected because, we are told, “most” of the population in many of these areas is white.
“…and I've never been to one as a spectator. “
Perhaps that’s the trouble, sp. You ought to pay one a visit. There you would see all manner of different people being sentenced (especially if you visited a Magistrates’ Court) and you could judge for yourself whether such bias is evident.
I find it difficult to understand how racial bias can influence sentencing, particularly concerning imprisonment from Magistrates’ courts. Magistrates’ sentencing guidelines are quite rigid and when deciding whether to impose custody rather than a community order it is usually quite clear from the details of the offence whether or not the custody threshold has been crossed. Magistrates are obliged by law to sentence in accordance with their guidelines or to make it known in open court why they have departed from them. And when I last looked there was not, among aggravating features relating either to offences or offenders, “defendant not white”.
sp, where are the stats to prove that theory, that a black male is more likely to end up in prison for a first offence than a white one? i have sat in a courtroom a number of times, for work purposes and i can tell you that Magistrates don't care the colour of the defendant, they do care however over the crime the person has committed. If black males are up for drug related offences that might end in a custodial sentence and if persistent in their drug dealing, a long one, same for gun, gang related crime.
emmie
To save you time:
The MoJ document, Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2012, was published without fanfare on the department’s website. It shows that over the past four years black criminals have been less likely to receive police cautions and more likely to have been proceeded against in court, than any other ethnic groups.
The most common outcome for a white criminal was a community sentence; for Black, Asian and Chinese offenders it was custody. The statistics are broken down by types of crime, ruling out the possibility that black defendants might be being proportionally found guilty of more serious offences.
Disturbingly, in every year studied, a higher proportion of white defendants had previous convictions – which would normally result in a greater number of prosecutions and harsher sentences. But this does not appear to be the case.
So...
To save you time:
The MoJ document, Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2012, was published without fanfare on the department’s website. It shows that over the past four years black criminals have been less likely to receive police cautions and more likely to have been proceeded against in court, than any other ethnic groups.
The most common outcome for a white criminal was a community sentence; for Black, Asian and Chinese offenders it was custody. The statistics are broken down by types of crime, ruling out the possibility that black defendants might be being proportionally found guilty of more serious offences.
Disturbingly, in every year studied, a higher proportion of white defendants had previous convictions – which would normally result in a greater number of prosecutions and harsher sentences. But this does not appear to be the case.
So...
you have to read a lot to get the info but it's there, open out whatever link, i can't see where it says that blacks are sent down over other ethnicities
https:/
https:/
The report in the so-called Independent, sp, does not provide access to the actual MoJ data and I cannot find it readily.
Bland statements such as “…you're more likely to go to jail for first time offences if you're not white…” are a bit unhelpful without knowing what those first offences were. If it was possession with intent to supply large amounts of Class A drugs you are very likely to end up inside regardless of your previous - or your colour. If it was possession of a small quantity of class C for personal use for which you had previously received out-of-court disposals you are most unlikely to be imprisoned regardless of your previous - or colour.
I can only repeat what I have said about sentencing guidelines and in particular reiterate that those used by Magistrates are extremely tight, especially when determining whether a custodial or non-custodial sentence is imposed.
Have a look at some of them and see how a bench of Magistrates might manipulate them to impose a custodial sentence on a black person whilst not doing so for a white person convicted of an identical offence:
http://
Bland statements such as “…you're more likely to go to jail for first time offences if you're not white…” are a bit unhelpful without knowing what those first offences were. If it was possession with intent to supply large amounts of Class A drugs you are very likely to end up inside regardless of your previous - or your colour. If it was possession of a small quantity of class C for personal use for which you had previously received out-of-court disposals you are most unlikely to be imprisoned regardless of your previous - or colour.
I can only repeat what I have said about sentencing guidelines and in particular reiterate that those used by Magistrates are extremely tight, especially when determining whether a custodial or non-custodial sentence is imposed.
Have a look at some of them and see how a bench of Magistrates might manipulate them to impose a custodial sentence on a black person whilst not doing so for a white person convicted of an identical offence:
http://
NJ
The MoJ document, Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2012, was published without fanfare on the department’s website. It shows that over the past four years black criminals have been less likely to receive police cautions and more likely to have been proceeded against in court, than any other ethnic groups.
The MoJ document, Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2012, was published without fanfare on the department’s website. It shows that over the past four years black criminals have been less likely to receive police cautions and more likely to have been proceeded against in court, than any other ethnic groups.
emmie/New Judge
If you put 'Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2012' into a Google search, the report is the third entry down.
Here's the link to the raw data:
https:/
If you put 'Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2012' into a Google search, the report is the third entry down.
Here's the link to the raw data:
https:/
emmie
"The report separates conviction and sentencing rates by comparable offences and pleas, excluding the possibility of the data being inaccurately skewed. The Ministry of Justice said yesterday that ministers were aware “without a shadow of a doubt” that there were problems with the system, and said work had begun to address it as an area of “increasing concern”.
I find that particularly disturbing, and so far, haven't seen a reasonable answer as to why this may be.
"The report separates conviction and sentencing rates by comparable offences and pleas, excluding the possibility of the data being inaccurately skewed. The Ministry of Justice said yesterday that ministers were aware “without a shadow of a doubt” that there were problems with the system, and said work had begun to address it as an area of “increasing concern”.
I find that particularly disturbing, and so far, haven't seen a reasonable answer as to why this may be.
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