Benefits To Immigrants

[naomi24]

In the light of recent events clearly something must be done urgently to stem the flow of immigrants into this country. Could the solution be to restrict all benefits to those who have lived in this country, and contributed to its public purse, for, say, a minimum of five years?

[factor-fiction]

Would we also restrict benefits to people who have always lived here but not been a net contributor for five years?

[naomi24]

This is about immigrants.

[sandyRoe]

Would European courts not think a level playing field was needed? To do as you suggest would be discriminatory.

[naomi24]

As far as I'm aware, other European countries have their own rules. Why not us?

[factor-fiction]

But why? If you are concerned about people taking out who haven't paid, why distinguish between immigrants and non-immigrants.
Anyway, sticking with your point, would you pay no child benefit for example?

[factor-fiction]

I think the key difference, naomi, is that our benefits system is much more attractive than those of other countries. That's why so few people on benefits in the UK seek to move to Rumania, etc.
I agree, it's all a mess though

[sandyRoe]

I suppose we could treat immigrants from outside the EU like that. But our brothers and sisters from Europe deserve better.

[naomi24]

Our own we're stuck with.

No, I wouldn't pay child benefit.

[naomi24]

//That's why so few people on benefits in the UK seek to move to Rumania, etc. //

Exactly. We do ourselves no favours.

[sandyRoe]

But in order to make ourselves less attractive to foreign benefit scroungers we'd need to set levels so low they'd be an unintentional punishment to native claimants.
the devil, as I've said on many an occasion, is in the detail

[jim360]

Unfortunately we actually tried something similar to this, a Residence Test (perhaps for a shorter time, but the same principle) added to some benefits, but it doesn't stand up in a European Court.

The problem, really, is that the European Union is still not so much a Union as it is 27 countries tied together despite having many wide disparities. As long as the nations prefer to think of themselves as nations rather than a Union this picture will continue. Two solutions suggest themselves, then -- either we start to get more enthusiastic about the European project, or we pull out altogether. But as long as we are members then benefits rules like the one you propose would be thrown out in Court.

It's worth noting that we aren't the only ones to suffer, although perhaps we are the most vocal in complaining about it, as most Northern European countries have similar problems with trying to "protect" their Social security systems from benefit tourism. Perhaps if it last long enough it will help to achieve the aim of balancing living standards between the richer and poorer countries in Europe, but that's likely to take a long time...

[pixie373]

Yes, i think that makes a lot of sense. There just isn't enough money to support everybody who moves in. It's purely maths.

[saintpeter48]

All we are doing, along with just a couple of other 'rich' countries, is propping up the poor countries of Europe! I certainly didn't vote for this back in the 70s, I voted for the 'common market', one hell of a different thing!!Its costing us Brits billions each year, we need a vote on it but the 3 main parties don't want to go there because they know what the result will be! We need to get out of Europe and then start making and implementing our own laws, stop payments of benefits, child support, etc, to all immigrants unless they have lived, and more importantly worked legally for say 5 years, in this country! If this law were brought in today there would be millions of immigrants queueing in Dover to cross the channel back!! Come on then, call me a racist or am I a realist?

[factor-fiction]

> "...stop payments of benefits, child support, etc, to all immigrants unless they have lived, and more importantly worked legally for say 5 years, in this country! "

So when we read about starving children born in this country (of say Polish parents) dying because there are no benefits, do you think there would be no backlash.
No party would allow that

[kvalidir]

Most immigrants don't come to this country from the EU to claim benefits Naomi, in fact they contribute more in taxes than they take in benefits by quite a large margin, so no, actually I don't think it's a good idea, I think we have more problems with our 'career chavs' and even then I don't think they are a colossal problem compared with tax evaders. We have to get our priorities right in what we spend money on retrieving and tax evasion is the biggest apple to pick, followed by a much smaller 'benefits cheat' apple, followed by and almost invisible 'EU immigrants claiming benefits long term 'apple.

[saintpeter48]

'Factor' I live in an area in Southampton that is swamped with Polish people, every other shop in our high street is Polish, and 99% of them are decent hard working and friendly people, a lot of them have lived and worked here for well over 5 years, i have no argument with them. Its pure maths, you cannpt take out of the pot if you haven't put into it, simple!! Do you really think that there would be 'starving Polish children', there is just not enough room on this little island for all of us, the health service, schools, benefits system are at breaking point, why do you think that Eastern Europeans cross 4, 5 or more boarders to get to us, why are they queueing and camping in Calais to cross the channel, its not rocket science, its simple - We are a soft touch, its time to say enough is enough! This is why UKIP had outstanding results recently, Cameron, Clegg, Milliband and their cronies are just not listening to the people!!

[naomi24]

//in fact they contribute more in taxes than they take in benefits by quite a large margin//

If that’s true – and taking into account health care, education, child benefits, family tax credits, etc., I seriously have my doubts – should my suggestion be adopted the margin would be considerably larger, thereby leaving more in the pot to prop up services that are now suffering under the strain.

[factor-fiction]

I'm sure even UKIP would not refuse child benefit or health treatment to someone born here just because their parents hadn't been here 5 years.

[tonyav]

Looks like a good idea to me, naomi. I don't think the Gov would grasp this nettle though.

[jim360]

To be fair to the government, they did grasp this nettle already -- albeit for a more modest minimum of six months (or possibly a year, I forget which but I suppose I can check the details later). But it's been thrown out by one or other of the European Courts and can't be tried again, really, as long as we are a member of the EU.