I Wonder Why This Number Is Rising So...
Politics5 mins ago
To All Those On Here Moaning About Israel....
92 Answers
No one seems to have an answer to the basic point that I and others have been making. Are they simply supposed to absorb the missiles and do nothing? I asked Gromit on his thread but the silence was deafening.
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What were the terms of said ceasefire? I have wondered why Hamas said no. But then there is nothing to stop Israel declaring a unilateral ceasefire, halt all building on the West Bank, withdraw to 1967 borders, work hard for a proper two-state solution, etc, etc. If after all that Hamas continues to attack... at least we'll know who the bad guys are.
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That Israeli Ceasefire proposal in full...
Israel: We will continue our armed blockage of your territory, withhold your taxes we collected, deny you medicine, switch off your access to electricity, phone and water when we feel like it. And you must promise not to fire at us. Sign here and then get out of the way of our bulldozer.
Israel: We will continue our armed blockage of your territory, withhold your taxes we collected, deny you medicine, switch off your access to electricity, phone and water when we feel like it. And you must promise not to fire at us. Sign here and then get out of the way of our bulldozer.
Ok, so the alternative is to have your people flattened?
Surely Hamas would score brownie points by agreeing to a ceasefire if organized by the toothless UN?
Instead they choose to fire from hospitals and highly populated areas knowing full well what will happen.
In my opinion both sides are equally as bad. But surely a ceasefire is the best option, certainly in the short term?
And yes, I can look at it objectively as I have equal distaste of both sides.
Surely Hamas would score brownie points by agreeing to a ceasefire if organized by the toothless UN?
Instead they choose to fire from hospitals and highly populated areas knowing full well what will happen.
In my opinion both sides are equally as bad. But surely a ceasefire is the best option, certainly in the short term?
And yes, I can look at it objectively as I have equal distaste of both sides.
-- answer removed --
ymb
The Palestinians regard the economic blockade of their areas as an act of war. Certainly the 9 civilians murdered when the Israelis attacked their flotilla in 2010 would agree. The UN say the blockade is illegal, so the Palestinians are justified in saying the ceasefire should include it. Israel will not agree to that, they maintain their economic strangle hold by armed force.
The Palestinians regard the economic blockade of their areas as an act of war. Certainly the 9 civilians murdered when the Israelis attacked their flotilla in 2010 would agree. The UN say the blockade is illegal, so the Palestinians are justified in saying the ceasefire should include it. Israel will not agree to that, they maintain their economic strangle hold by armed force.
ymb
What usually happens is that the weight of worldwide condemnation of the Israelis forces them to withdraw from their illegal invasion anyway.
Kerry is in Israel, so Netanyahu can cadge a few more $billions to agree to stop.. Meanwhile the decision of international airlines to boycott Israel on safety grounds is an unexpected thorn. israel's tourist industry has suffered a sharp rise in cancellations.
When the Israelis have 1000 kills they will call it a day.
What usually happens is that the weight of worldwide condemnation of the Israelis forces them to withdraw from their illegal invasion anyway.
Kerry is in Israel, so Netanyahu can cadge a few more $billions to agree to stop.. Meanwhile the decision of international airlines to boycott Israel on safety grounds is an unexpected thorn. israel's tourist industry has suffered a sharp rise in cancellations.
When the Israelis have 1000 kills they will call it a day.
http://
since when were Qatar and Turkey members of the //right-on brigade//?
since when were Qatar and Turkey members of the //right-on brigade//?
humbersloop's link was behind a paywall. If you got the same result, you should be able to access the wsj via this link...
https:/
https:/
r1
>ToraToraTora Jim360:” I don't think the Allied bombing campaigns of eg Dresden were at all proportionate. Tens of thousands of people dead, a beautiful ancient city levelled virtually overnight, and for no military purpose whatsoever.”
Yes very similar to Coventry. They reaped the wind. <
> The Dresden Historians' Commission published a report this week claiming that only 25,000 people were killed in the Allies' air raid of the German city Dresden during world war II , unlike the previous estimation of up to half a million casualties, news agencies reported.
Over five years of research went into the study, in an attempt to end a long time dispute regarding the amount of casualties in the three-day bombing by British and United States between February 13 and 15, 1945.
"Remembering the Allied bombings of Dresden... still carries importance for the social-political understanding of how history is seen, how society is shaped, and how identities are formed," the commission was quoted as saying. < .
20:09 Sun 20th Jul 2014 <
have a read of this book r1 if you get the chance
http://
>ToraToraTora Jim360:” I don't think the Allied bombing campaigns of eg Dresden were at all proportionate. Tens of thousands of people dead, a beautiful ancient city levelled virtually overnight, and for no military purpose whatsoever.”
Yes very similar to Coventry. They reaped the wind. <
> The Dresden Historians' Commission published a report this week claiming that only 25,000 people were killed in the Allies' air raid of the German city Dresden during world war II , unlike the previous estimation of up to half a million casualties, news agencies reported.
Over five years of research went into the study, in an attempt to end a long time dispute regarding the amount of casualties in the three-day bombing by British and United States between February 13 and 15, 1945.
"Remembering the Allied bombings of Dresden... still carries importance for the social-political understanding of how history is seen, how society is shaped, and how identities are formed," the commission was quoted as saying. < .
20:09 Sun 20th Jul 2014 <
have a read of this book r1 if you get the chance
http://
Can I remind people on here today that while the Allies were bombing poor little Dresden, the Nzis were busy popping millions of people into gas chambers. Perhaps if the residents of Dresden and other German cities were aware of that, they would have risen up and battled with the Allies against the murderous German regime.
No it is not an appropriate comparison by any means.
This conflict (Israel/Palestine) has all the usual ingredients of the many interminable skirmishes that go on in the Middle East. It involves essentially tribal warfare, religious intolerance, outside interference and differences which go back long before any of those currently killing each other were born - very much longer in fact. And, as usual, the dispute is about a few square miles of inhospitable dust and rock.
The rights and wrongs of it all are lost in the mists of time and it will never be properly resolved. These people prefer to knock seven bells out of each other arguing over the said dust and rock and no amount of encouragement from outside will make them see sense.
This conflict (Israel/Palestine) has all the usual ingredients of the many interminable skirmishes that go on in the Middle East. It involves essentially tribal warfare, religious intolerance, outside interference and differences which go back long before any of those currently killing each other were born - very much longer in fact. And, as usual, the dispute is about a few square miles of inhospitable dust and rock.
The rights and wrongs of it all are lost in the mists of time and it will never be properly resolved. These people prefer to knock seven bells out of each other arguing over the said dust and rock and no amount of encouragement from outside will make them see sense.
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