Baroness Warsi Resigns

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28656874.

The first female Muslim Cabinet member resigns over daves Gaza policy. Brave woman as far as I am concerned. Lets hope more people protest and this government starts to pull its finger out over the Israeli policy of killing 1000's of innocent Gaza citizens.

Netanyahu has long passed the point of avenging the deaths of the three Israeli schoolboys. Enough already.

[retrocop]

As I have said before.The casualty list would probably be more proportionate if the 3300 rockets were allowed,by the Israeli's to fall in their country which they are not stupid enough to allow to happen.I am seriously saying that no one should bleat, in this country, about disproportionate force being used by another country in their conflict.As stated by me earlier.Hiroshima and Nagasaki was disproportionate force and it stopped the war with Japan in it's tracks thus saving many lives in a ground war in JapanThe emperor of Japan learnt that lesson and threw in the towel knowing more bombs could fall if they did'nt.Perhaps Hamas should learn that disproportionate force can stop war and further grief if you are wise enough to realise it.Time will tell.

[Gromit]

retrocop

FACT: The number of Israeli casualties before and after Iron Dome was installed has hardly changed.

The reason: Hamas' rockets are basic and most fall on unpopulated land.

Israeli Deaths by missile attack:

2001 = 0
2002 = 0
2003 = 0
2004 = 4
2005 = 2
2006 = 2
2007 = 2
2008 = 8
2008 - Blockade of Gaza begins
2009 = 0
2010 = 1
2011 - Iron Dome goes into operation
2011 = 2
2012 = 8
2013 = 0
2004 = 1
Total = 28

[anotheoldgit]

This from a 2007 Gromit thread

/// AB Editor ///

/// "Where oh where are the comments from that very fair minded AOG ?" ///

Don't know how I missed that one ED, but thanks for your concerns.

Incidentally how am I going on this one? As you say "always fair minded" so don't let anyone tell you any different. :0)

[anotheoldgit]

mikey4444

/// The gas chambers were a long time ago, and Israel needs to realise that its not going to get sympathy for ever. ///

Exactly but it is not only the Jews who seem to be a protected group due to the atrocities that were inflicted against them years ago.

[Zeuhl]

/Hiroshima and Nagasaki was disproportionate force and it stopped the war with Japan in it's tracks thus saving many lives/

Then it wasn't disproportionate was it???

Because in proportion with the number of civilians and troops on both sides who would have perished in the planned conventional invasion of the Japanese home islands, the number killed and injured by the A bombs was a good bargain.

So the analogy doesn't stand up retro

Unless of course you are suggesting the recent Israeli incursion into the tiny bit of Palestinian land they haven't taken over was a preferable alternative to Plan A;

a whole scale military invasion of Gaza, capitulation and the extermination of any resistance?

[anotheoldgit]

naomi24

/// I'm trying to say that Hamas has a choice. It can choose to cease its bombardment which will result in Israel ceasing its bombardment. ///

I don't think so somehow, Israel broke this ceasefire after only six minutes killing a 8 year old girl.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-israel-breaks-ceasefire-in-minutes-as-eightyearold-girl-killed-in-air-strike-9645558.html

[mikey4444]

I too have my doubts about whether Israel will lift the blockade under any circumstances. Bullies never back down unless they are forced to.

[Svejk]

educate yourself-read the huffington post.
Lol, best laugh in ages, thanks jack.

[jackthehat]

Glad you found it helpful, svejk.

[anotheoldgit]

What I find very strange about all this, is the fact that on AB we never saw as much condemnation against the Taliban as we are now witnessing against Hamas.

Come to think about it we never get much criticism if in some countries Muslims massacre Christians, but get condemnation from ABers if Christians massacre Muslims.

Iraq and Afghanistan was another prime example, were many criticised the West for killing Muslim civilians

[Zeuhl]

/Iraq and Afghanistan was another prime example, were many criticised the West for killing Muslim civilians/

really aog?

I thought we were just criticising USA and its allies for killing hundreds of thousands of civilians.


/ I'm trying to say that Hamas has a choice. It can choose to cease its bombardment which will result in Israel ceasing its bombardment. /

naomi

in that case, I suppose you would also argue that Churchill and the rest of the British leadership were to blame for the British civilian deaths in the Blitz, because they had the choice to stop bothering the Germans who had occupied land up to our borders.

[mikey4444]

I wish people would stop comparing what is going on in Gaza and what happened during the Blitz. Its disrespectful to the memories of all those people that gave their lives to free Europe of the Nazi scourge. Its also entirely irrelevant and doesn't add anything to our understanding of the Gaza situation.

[naomi24]

Zeuhl, no, that isn’t what I’d argue – it’s skewed. Israel has said it will stop its attacks when Hamas stops its bombardment. It's highly unlikely that Germany would have stopped its attacks in return for a similar pledge.

Mikey, you post what you want to post but please allow others to do the same. We don’t all share your opinions.

[Zeuhl]

/Its disrespectful to the memories of all those people that gave their lives to free Europe of the Nazi scourge./

With respect, that sounds very fine, but what is being disrespected exactly? Both involve civilians being hit by explosives.

/Its also entirely irrelevant/

It is entirely valid to compare the 'Hamas could stop this' argument with blaming the leaders of any victimised civilian population for failing to stop the killing by capitulating; Churchill and other British leaders and deaths in the Blitz is just one illustration.

[retrocop]

you have a propensity,mikey,to dismiss anything as irrelevant if it differs from your views.Not the first time on this thread you have dismissed someones post as irrelevant.

[Zeuhl]

/Israel has said it will stop its attacks when Hamas stops its bombardment. It's highly unlikely that Germany would have stopped its attacks in return for a similar pledge./

naomi

you are propagating Israel's cynical misrepresentation of what the demands are.

Hamas cease fire is not tied to an Israeli ceasefire - it is tied to an end of the Israeli blockade which is a death sentence for Gaza by strangulation. Israel will not agree to that.

I'm interested in your view that a British commitment to non intervention in mainland europe would not have prevented German attacks on Britain when there is considerable evidence that the Germans did not want to fight us.

[Svejk]

better than 'drivel'. ;D

[naomi24]

Zeuhl, //Netanyahu Says Israel Will Keep Up Gaza Offensive Until Rocket Fire Ends//

http://online.wsj.com/articles/netanyahu-says-israel-will-keep-up-gaza-offensive-until-rockets-stop-1407170336

This is what this question is about. You're moving the goalposts.

//I'm interested in your view that a British commitment to non intervention in mainland europe would not have prevented German attacks on Britain when there is considerable evidence that the Germans did not want to fight us.//

And again. That wasn’t your original question. I answered that.

[Zeuhl]

/And again. That wasn’t your original question. I answered that. /

I'm afraid you haven't naomi

you are still aligning the wrong conditions.

An Israeli ceasefire is not what Hamas want in return for their ceasefire; they require that Israel lift their siege.

Israel will not do that as suppressing, dominating and throttling Gaza is an important part of their strategy.

[naomi24]

Zeuhl, yes, I have answered your question. You asked me if I would also argue that Churchill and the rest of the British leadership were to blame for the British civilian deaths in the Blitz, because they had the choice to stop bothering the Germans who had occupied land up to our borders.

I answered that.

//An Israeli ceasefire is not what Hamas want in return for their ceasefire; they require that Israel lift their siege.//

I realise that – but that is not what Israel is offering. Israel will stop attacking Gaza if Hamas stops sending its rockets. Jeepers! What do you want me to say? If I could solve it to everyone's satisfaction, I would!