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Shooting Of A Black Teenager In Missouri Sparks Riots
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http://
Disregarding why this teenager was shot, the police say one thing and a rapper says another.
What I wish to discuss here is the fact that whether in America or the UK it would seem that if a black person is deemed to be mistreated by the police, a wholesale riot takes place, along with more violence looting and damaging of property.
This never happens if a white person is killed by the police (or at least I can never remember such a thing) why?
Disregarding why this teenager was shot, the police say one thing and a rapper says another.
What I wish to discuss here is the fact that whether in America or the UK it would seem that if a black person is deemed to be mistreated by the police, a wholesale riot takes place, along with more violence looting and damaging of property.
This never happens if a white person is killed by the police (or at least I can never remember such a thing) why?
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AOG
That's why I said, "I would wager'
Out of interest - do you think that black people are more lawless because they are black?
If so, do you think that the cause is genetics or environment?
...or something else?
Where white people have been seen to be violent - do you think, perhaps that it's something that they've seen a black person doing on telly, and are imitating it?
I ask, because you seem to have suggested that the white rioters after the Duggan shooting were imitating what they were seeing around them.
That's why I said, "I would wager'
Out of interest - do you think that black people are more lawless because they are black?
If so, do you think that the cause is genetics or environment?
...or something else?
Where white people have been seen to be violent - do you think, perhaps that it's something that they've seen a black person doing on telly, and are imitating it?
I ask, because you seem to have suggested that the white rioters after the Duggan shooting were imitating what they were seeing around them.
sp1814
/// Out of interest - do you think that black people are more lawless because they are black? ///
What a strange statement to make.
If they where white they wouldn't be black.
No it is nothing to do with colour only their particular mind set, even in countries that are predominately black there is still an excessive amount of violence, the Caribbean, South Africa, and other parts of Africa, can you explain why?
/// Out of interest - do you think that black people are more lawless because they are black? ///
What a strange statement to make.
If they where white they wouldn't be black.
No it is nothing to do with colour only their particular mind set, even in countries that are predominately black there is still an excessive amount of violence, the Caribbean, South Africa, and other parts of Africa, can you explain why?
sp1814
/// I ask, because you seem to have suggested that the white rioters after the Duggan shooting were imitating what they were seeing around them. ///
Of course they were, they wasn't bothered about Duggan being shot, they saw a riot take off and also looting taking place by black youths, so they thought why not take the chance of picking up a few tasty goods themselves while others were.
/// I ask, because you seem to have suggested that the white rioters after the Duggan shooting were imitating what they were seeing around them. ///
Of course they were, they wasn't bothered about Duggan being shot, they saw a riot take off and also looting taking place by black youths, so they thought why not take the chance of picking up a few tasty goods themselves while others were.
So...countries which are *not* predominately black! should likewise have very low levels of crimes and gang violence, right?
Like Romanian, Lithuania, Italy, Russia etc?
And what do you mean by mindset?
Are you saying that black people have different minds to white people?
I know you subscribe to certain theories regarding racial differences, but is honestly didn't think this would extend to the belief that black people are 'wired differently'
Seriously, I'm in shock.
I've never ever encountered that.
It's illuminating though. It totally makes sense why you would think that.
And I am in NO WAY criticising you for it. We all have beliefs that others might not agree with.
Doesn't make you wrong in any way - it's just your opinion, and you have every right to express it.
I am just not convinced, that's all...
Like Romanian, Lithuania, Italy, Russia etc?
And what do you mean by mindset?
Are you saying that black people have different minds to white people?
I know you subscribe to certain theories regarding racial differences, but is honestly didn't think this would extend to the belief that black people are 'wired differently'
Seriously, I'm in shock.
I've never ever encountered that.
It's illuminating though. It totally makes sense why you would think that.
And I am in NO WAY criticising you for it. We all have beliefs that others might not agree with.
Doesn't make you wrong in any way - it's just your opinion, and you have every right to express it.
I am just not convinced, that's all...
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I've only picked up this thread at the tail end, but do notice SP1814's mention of crime statistics emanating from Chicago.
South and West Chicago are almost entirely black (and brown--- i.e. Hispanic) in population demographics and has probably the highest murder rate in the U.S. The murder rate is nearly all 'black on black' and nearly always gang and drug related. (Source: http://
"... But for any of this to help, it will need to change trend lines that have been telling the same grim story through more than two decades, numerous mayors and police superintendents and the rise and fall of the crack cocaine epidemic. It’s a classic tale of two Chicago's, one of them safe and prosperous, the other one dangerous and poor—and both of them growing more so.
“We’ve talked about homicide in Chicago at least one million times but I don’t think this has come up,” according Daniel Hertz, a prominent blogger and public policy graduate student at the University of Chicago, who has crunched the citywide data on homicides and income. The “something” is how the murder rate has fallen overall, but fallen unevenly.
The North Side experienced huge 20-year drops in the homicide rate. In Rogers Park it was down more than 80 percent. The parts of the South and West sides of the city closest to downtown—Bronzeville, the Loop—also got a lot safer. “But most of the rest actually got worse,” says Hertz, including the parts of the city (Englewood, Garfield Park) that were already among the most dangerous."
Strange thing is, in response to SP1814's question concerning comparison of lawlessness being attributable to skin color, in Chicago, at least (the same plays out in other American cities) the highest crime rates, especially violent crime, is prevalent in predominantly cities with the highest population of people of color.
Certainly, this is not attributable in any measure to 'skin color' but to the failure of the black family over the last few decades.
Time was, especially in the southern U.S. States, the black family and hence the black community was a close knit society especially at it's most common denominator, that of the family. Today's black family (according to sociologists)is much more apt to consist of an unwed mother with more than one and often several children with no father present in the household.
A major contributor to this phenomena is placed at the doorstep of liberal politicians that insist on providing program after failed program that were supposed to totally obliterate any poverty among this sector of society. Beginning with President Lyndon B. Johnson's mid 1960's "Great Society", somewhere between $15 and $20 Trillion have been spent on such programs but have only produced a failed black family;
"...The rise of the welfare state in the 1960s contributed greatly to the demise of the black family as a stable institution. The out-of-wedlock birth rate among African Americans today is 73%, three times higher than it was prior to the War on Poverty. Children raised in fatherless homes are far more likely to grow up poor and to eventually engage in criminal behavior, than their peers who are raised in two-parent homes. In 2010, blacks (approximately 13% of the U.S. population) accounted for 48.7% of all arrests for homicide, 31.8% of arrests for forcible rape, 33.5% of arrests for aggravated assault, and 55% of arrests for robbery. Also as of 2010, the black poverty rate was 27.4% (about 3 times higher than the white rate), meaning that 11.5 million blacks in the U.S. were living in poverty..." (Source: [i]http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/[i] )
So, speaking for such history only here in the U.S., I'm afraid such a splintering of society based on color and the continued downward spiral for many blacks will continue with Ferguson, Missouri being merely a road mark on that highway...
South and West Chicago are almost entirely black (and brown--- i.e. Hispanic) in population demographics and has probably the highest murder rate in the U.S. The murder rate is nearly all 'black on black' and nearly always gang and drug related. (Source: http://
"... But for any of this to help, it will need to change trend lines that have been telling the same grim story through more than two decades, numerous mayors and police superintendents and the rise and fall of the crack cocaine epidemic. It’s a classic tale of two Chicago's, one of them safe and prosperous, the other one dangerous and poor—and both of them growing more so.
“We’ve talked about homicide in Chicago at least one million times but I don’t think this has come up,” according Daniel Hertz, a prominent blogger and public policy graduate student at the University of Chicago, who has crunched the citywide data on homicides and income. The “something” is how the murder rate has fallen overall, but fallen unevenly.
The North Side experienced huge 20-year drops in the homicide rate. In Rogers Park it was down more than 80 percent. The parts of the South and West sides of the city closest to downtown—Bronzeville, the Loop—also got a lot safer. “But most of the rest actually got worse,” says Hertz, including the parts of the city (Englewood, Garfield Park) that were already among the most dangerous."
Strange thing is, in response to SP1814's question concerning comparison of lawlessness being attributable to skin color, in Chicago, at least (the same plays out in other American cities) the highest crime rates, especially violent crime, is prevalent in predominantly cities with the highest population of people of color.
Certainly, this is not attributable in any measure to 'skin color' but to the failure of the black family over the last few decades.
Time was, especially in the southern U.S. States, the black family and hence the black community was a close knit society especially at it's most common denominator, that of the family. Today's black family (according to sociologists)is much more apt to consist of an unwed mother with more than one and often several children with no father present in the household.
A major contributor to this phenomena is placed at the doorstep of liberal politicians that insist on providing program after failed program that were supposed to totally obliterate any poverty among this sector of society. Beginning with President Lyndon B. Johnson's mid 1960's "Great Society", somewhere between $15 and $20 Trillion have been spent on such programs but have only produced a failed black family;
"...The rise of the welfare state in the 1960s contributed greatly to the demise of the black family as a stable institution. The out-of-wedlock birth rate among African Americans today is 73%, three times higher than it was prior to the War on Poverty. Children raised in fatherless homes are far more likely to grow up poor and to eventually engage in criminal behavior, than their peers who are raised in two-parent homes. In 2010, blacks (approximately 13% of the U.S. population) accounted for 48.7% of all arrests for homicide, 31.8% of arrests for forcible rape, 33.5% of arrests for aggravated assault, and 55% of arrests for robbery. Also as of 2010, the black poverty rate was 27.4% (about 3 times higher than the white rate), meaning that 11.5 million blacks in the U.S. were living in poverty..." (Source: [i]http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/[i] )
So, speaking for such history only here in the U.S., I'm afraid such a splintering of society based on color and the continued downward spiral for many blacks will continue with Ferguson, Missouri being merely a road mark on that highway...
Clanad
This makes interesting reading:
http://
Seems like you're more likely to go to jail if you are black in the US, when you have committed the same crime as a white offender.
Which might go a little way to explaining some of the disparity.
By all means not *all* the way - but it's worth bearing in mind...
This makes interesting reading:
http://
Seems like you're more likely to go to jail if you are black in the US, when you have committed the same crime as a white offender.
Which might go a little way to explaining some of the disparity.
By all means not *all* the way - but it's worth bearing in mind...
That's an astute observation sp1814... one that has puzzeled investigators of the causes for nearly 200 years. A number of reasons are provided through studies and they include;
Lumping together crime statistics for Hispanic and Asians with those of 'White' populations. There are other studies that recognize this weakness in the statistics and when reviewed still show the South to be a dangerous place, overall.
Additionally, on site offers "...It's Personal
Experts note, in addition, that much of the disparity in murder rates between the South and other sections of the country stems from a difference in the character of Southern homicide. In the South, many murders are of a personal and traditional nature: a barroom brawl, a quarrel between acquaintances or a fight between lovers. Elsewhere, homicides usually begin with another crime, like a robbery gone bad, and typically involve strangers."
Interestingly, one factor is mentioned in most studies indicating a major contributing aspect is the historical source of much of the Southern population... Irish and Scot. (My own ancestry is Southern and Scot)
'Primal Honor' (Source: http://
Contemporary historians have suggested other sources of Southern bellicosity. David Hackett Fischer, a professor of history at Brandeis University, says a critical factor was the heavy settlement of the South by immigrants referred to today as Scotch Irish -- people from the north of Britain, the lowlands of Scotland and the north of Ireland.
These settlers, whom Benjamin Franklin described as ''white savages,'' brought with them a culture based on centuries of fighting between the kings of England and Scotland over the borderlands they inhabited. They had a penchant for family feuds, a love of whisky and a warrior ethic that demanded vengeance, Professor Fischer said.
The mother of Andrew Jackson, herself an immigrant from the north of Ireland, advised her boy: ''Andrew, never tell a lie, nor take what is not your own, nor sue anybody for slander, assault and battery. Always settle them cases yourself.'' He did, becoming a famous pistol dueler."
Further: "...Most important, the experts say, the high Southern murder rate is a key factor behind America's disproportionately high homicide rate compared with other democratic, industrialized nations. In 1996, the last year for which data are available, the United States murder rate was 7.4 per 100,000 people. The next closest country was Finland, at 3.2 per 100,000 people, with France at 1.1, Japan at 0.6 and Britain at 0.5."
These stats do point out that Europe, including the U.K. have higher crime rates in other types of crimes... "...While the United States has much more murder than comparable countries, it does not necessarily have much more crime. England has a higher rate of burglary. France has a higher rate of auto theft. The Netherlands and Australia have about the same total crime rate."
Having said all of this I'm unclear as to what your question or my response have to do with the demonstrably high crime (read - murder) among black's and the underlying disintergration of the Black family... especially in large cities...
Lumping together crime statistics for Hispanic and Asians with those of 'White' populations. There are other studies that recognize this weakness in the statistics and when reviewed still show the South to be a dangerous place, overall.
Additionally, on site offers "...It's Personal
Experts note, in addition, that much of the disparity in murder rates between the South and other sections of the country stems from a difference in the character of Southern homicide. In the South, many murders are of a personal and traditional nature: a barroom brawl, a quarrel between acquaintances or a fight between lovers. Elsewhere, homicides usually begin with another crime, like a robbery gone bad, and typically involve strangers."
Interestingly, one factor is mentioned in most studies indicating a major contributing aspect is the historical source of much of the Southern population... Irish and Scot. (My own ancestry is Southern and Scot)
'Primal Honor' (Source: http://
Contemporary historians have suggested other sources of Southern bellicosity. David Hackett Fischer, a professor of history at Brandeis University, says a critical factor was the heavy settlement of the South by immigrants referred to today as Scotch Irish -- people from the north of Britain, the lowlands of Scotland and the north of Ireland.
These settlers, whom Benjamin Franklin described as ''white savages,'' brought with them a culture based on centuries of fighting between the kings of England and Scotland over the borderlands they inhabited. They had a penchant for family feuds, a love of whisky and a warrior ethic that demanded vengeance, Professor Fischer said.
The mother of Andrew Jackson, herself an immigrant from the north of Ireland, advised her boy: ''Andrew, never tell a lie, nor take what is not your own, nor sue anybody for slander, assault and battery. Always settle them cases yourself.'' He did, becoming a famous pistol dueler."
Further: "...Most important, the experts say, the high Southern murder rate is a key factor behind America's disproportionately high homicide rate compared with other democratic, industrialized nations. In 1996, the last year for which data are available, the United States murder rate was 7.4 per 100,000 people. The next closest country was Finland, at 3.2 per 100,000 people, with France at 1.1, Japan at 0.6 and Britain at 0.5."
These stats do point out that Europe, including the U.K. have higher crime rates in other types of crimes... "...While the United States has much more murder than comparable countries, it does not necessarily have much more crime. England has a higher rate of burglary. France has a higher rate of auto theft. The Netherlands and Australia have about the same total crime rate."
Having said all of this I'm unclear as to what your question or my response have to do with the demonstrably high crime (read - murder) among black's and the underlying disintergration of the Black family... especially in large cities...
Your site reference is interesting sp1814... I haven't of course read the entire study, but a couple of things jump out of the body (I could be accused of cherry picking, but that's not my intent), but one aspect is:
Drug laws themselves also play a role in the disproportionate impact of the drug war on minorities. For example, as discussed below, Illinois law identifies certain “drug free zones” that surround schools, churches, and public parks. A conviction for a drug delivery offense in one of these zones results in enhanced penalties. Urban areas have a much higher concentration of such zones; hence, people convicted of a delivery crime in those communities are much more likely to receive a more serious sentence than people convicted in a suburban or rural community..."
In nearly every circumstance an arrest for intent to sell or deliver drugs is met with harsher penalties than simply using. Studies have shown that selling drugs has a higher incidence among the black communities. Even 'Charlie Freshman', home on break from his lily white university who decides to try out some cocaine (for example) buys it from the gang related seller... not one of his buddies that are, themselves occasional users...
Drug laws themselves also play a role in the disproportionate impact of the drug war on minorities. For example, as discussed below, Illinois law identifies certain “drug free zones” that surround schools, churches, and public parks. A conviction for a drug delivery offense in one of these zones results in enhanced penalties. Urban areas have a much higher concentration of such zones; hence, people convicted of a delivery crime in those communities are much more likely to receive a more serious sentence than people convicted in a suburban or rural community..."
In nearly every circumstance an arrest for intent to sell or deliver drugs is met with harsher penalties than simply using. Studies have shown that selling drugs has a higher incidence among the black communities. Even 'Charlie Freshman', home on break from his lily white university who decides to try out some cocaine (for example) buys it from the gang related seller... not one of his buddies that are, themselves occasional users...
Additionally (included in one of your posts), meth[i use seems to be in a class all its own... I've friends in the law enforcement community and I'm told meth is [i]extremely] addictive... mush more so than other, typically recreational type drugs. Even here in my mainly rural, inter-mountain western State, I'm told that the many ancient, broken down homesteader cabins established back in the 1880's are all used, at one time or another for the manufacture of meth. Not knowing much about it, it seems to be involved in many of the violent crimes we read about.
Having said that, my guess is that cocaine and to a lesser extent marijuana are more likely to be involved in gang related crimes since most of it is imported from countries south of our very leaky southwestern border...
Having said that, my guess is that cocaine and to a lesser extent marijuana are more likely to be involved in gang related crimes since most of it is imported from countries south of our very leaky southwestern border...
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