Are We Heading Towards Another...
Politics1 min ago
Dave Lee Travis Verdict
DLT found guilty of indecent assault - cleared on another count - no verdict on third count of sexual assault.
Answers
Old_Geezer - "I guess he must have been one of those who considered grabbing tits & bum a form of flirting. I've met one or two of those in the past. Strange how some folk can't or simply never think of putting themselves in the position of those they are affecting." That was pretty much Travis's defence - saying 'I am a tactile person ...' which translates as - "If I...
13:45 Tue 23rd Sep 2014
naomi24 - "I wonder which hers was?"
I believe that in the rush to condemn belated accusers as opprtunists or money-grabbers, we may be losing sight of the circumstances they have endured to get their case to court.
The women in question must be intereviewed by police, appear at court, stand up in front of the accused and be cross-examined by seriously expensive legal council who are going to give them a very rough time - in public.
There is no guarentee of financial compensation - and if there were, it sounds particualrly hard earned if that was the only motivation.
Which leads me to conclude that none of these charges were brought or actioned lightly by anyone involved - and that only a desire for jusitce which has hitherto been denied, would motivate anyone to put themselves throught a trial like this, when they know full well that the public perception of the accused is likely to be that he 'simply did what was done at the time ...' and that they are going to be seen as opportunistic money-grabbing come-lately revenge-seeking harpies without the guts to say anything at the time the alleged offence took place.
Put yourself in that position, and consider than in view of all that - you still go ahead and go to court, then think that your desire for justice and for seeing justice being done must be pretty damned strong.
Not quite so easy to dismiss it all now is it?
I believe that in the rush to condemn belated accusers as opprtunists or money-grabbers, we may be losing sight of the circumstances they have endured to get their case to court.
The women in question must be intereviewed by police, appear at court, stand up in front of the accused and be cross-examined by seriously expensive legal council who are going to give them a very rough time - in public.
There is no guarentee of financial compensation - and if there were, it sounds particualrly hard earned if that was the only motivation.
Which leads me to conclude that none of these charges were brought or actioned lightly by anyone involved - and that only a desire for jusitce which has hitherto been denied, would motivate anyone to put themselves throught a trial like this, when they know full well that the public perception of the accused is likely to be that he 'simply did what was done at the time ...' and that they are going to be seen as opportunistic money-grabbing come-lately revenge-seeking harpies without the guts to say anything at the time the alleged offence took place.
Put yourself in that position, and consider than in view of all that - you still go ahead and go to court, then think that your desire for justice and for seeing justice being done must be pretty damned strong.
Not quite so easy to dismiss it all now is it?
he certainly differes in one important respect from Savile: he's a convicted sex offender, Savile wasn't. But this all comes under the umbrella of Operation Yewtree, and rightly so. That he wasn't a paedophile is neither here nor there: assaulting adults is a crime too. It will no doubt carry a lesser penalty than Harris got, and that's quite right too - though if it's just a elap on the wrist, that will tell victims once again not to bother reporting the offences of the rich and famous, and we'll be back in the 1980s.
It's also pretty tacky to brand victims as opportunistic and I find the desire of some older ladies particularly here to excuse sex offenders really unacceptable and spiteful in the extreme towards another woman who has been suffering years of torment in some cases. Not really part of the sisterhood eh, more offering the idea that men can do whatever they like to us with no comeback- not helpful then and really not helpful now.
jno - "It will no doubt carry a lesser penalty than Harris got, and that's quite right too - though if it's just a elap on the wrist, that will tell victims once again not to bother reporting the offences of the rich and famous, and we'll be back in the 1980s."
I do fear that a non-custodial sentence will send the message that it's probably not worth all the grief - outlines in my last post - to see the convicted pervert walk away with less of a punishment than such a crime warrants.
That's always assuming that any woman would want to climb over the apparent assumptions that her motives are greed revenge, sourness and attention-seeking - in that order.
I do fear that a non-custodial sentence will send the message that it's probably not worth all the grief - outlines in my last post - to see the convicted pervert walk away with less of a punishment than such a crime warrants.
That's always assuming that any woman would want to climb over the apparent assumptions that her motives are greed revenge, sourness and attention-seeking - in that order.
Andy, call me sceptical if you like, but I can't help wondering why none of the victims in my link here ...
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... brought cases against their attackers years after the event. Perhaps it's because the perpetrators in all but one of those instances weren't rich and famous. Just a thought.
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... brought cases against their attackers years after the event. Perhaps it's because the perpetrators in all but one of those instances weren't rich and famous. Just a thought.
naomi24 - "Andy, call me sceptical if you like, but I can't help wondering why none of the victims in my link here ...
http://
... brought cases against their attackers years after the event. Perhaps it's because the perpetrators in all but one of those instances weren't rich and famous. Just a thought."
The issue is not that the perpatrators are rich and famous that made these women come forward.
It was seeing people like Travis in particular, being accused as a result of a police investigation, and then puffing himself up with his usual self-importance, to dismiss the women involved as liars and fantasists.
If I had been sexually asssaulted by DLT as a young woman, and had my report of the incident dismissed, and then seen him accused by other women, and bluffing hiw way through press interviews, I would be pretty sure to add my name and evidence to the case.
That's allowing for the 'sceptical' strangers who know nothing of me, or the incident, or how it affected me, who will denounce me as a johnny-come-lately compensation-sniffer with a chip on her shoulder, wheras in fact I am a woman who was assaulted by a man who got away with it because he was rich and famous - and that is not right.
I may be getting my crack at justice - whcih I never expected to have - later rather than sooner, but I'll take my justice thank you, and I'll stand up in court and state my case to do it.
http://
... brought cases against their attackers years after the event. Perhaps it's because the perpetrators in all but one of those instances weren't rich and famous. Just a thought."
The issue is not that the perpatrators are rich and famous that made these women come forward.
It was seeing people like Travis in particular, being accused as a result of a police investigation, and then puffing himself up with his usual self-importance, to dismiss the women involved as liars and fantasists.
If I had been sexually asssaulted by DLT as a young woman, and had my report of the incident dismissed, and then seen him accused by other women, and bluffing hiw way through press interviews, I would be pretty sure to add my name and evidence to the case.
That's allowing for the 'sceptical' strangers who know nothing of me, or the incident, or how it affected me, who will denounce me as a johnny-come-lately compensation-sniffer with a chip on her shoulder, wheras in fact I am a woman who was assaulted by a man who got away with it because he was rich and famous - and that is not right.
I may be getting my crack at justice - whcih I never expected to have - later rather than sooner, but I'll take my justice thank you, and I'll stand up in court and state my case to do it.
//Andy, call me sceptical if you like, but I can't help wondering why none of the victims in my link here ... //
Or perhaps it's because I have no idea who they were- hence it's easier to bring a case against a man whose identity you know like Travis than a man when all you know is he's about 5'10, medium build, about 30-40 with mousy brown average length hair- not many of those about are there, the police are bound to get their man.
Or perhaps it's because I have no idea who they were- hence it's easier to bring a case against a man whose identity you know like Travis than a man when all you know is he's about 5'10, medium build, about 30-40 with mousy brown average length hair- not many of those about are there, the police are bound to get their man.
// but I can't help wondering why none of the victims in my link here ... //
I wonder if the police would be interested in investigating any of those 30 year old assaults by unknown people anyway. They only seem interested if the accused was famous.
I can't really see them raiding Joe 'unknown' Blogg's house on the basis of a single allegation of an incident from 30 years ago. Cliff Richard on the other hand, they're on it like a rat up a drainpipe.
I wonder if the police would be interested in investigating any of those 30 year old assaults by unknown people anyway. They only seem interested if the accused was famous.
I can't really see them raiding Joe 'unknown' Blogg's house on the basis of a single allegation of an incident from 30 years ago. Cliff Richard on the other hand, they're on it like a rat up a drainpipe.
naomi24 - "They said nothing to the police before all hell broke loose with the Jimmy Savile scandal – and then they jumped on the bandwagon."
Did you read my last post?
Have you read any of my posts?
I find your perception that these women have 'jumped on the bandwaggon' as you put it to be cold in the extreme.
If you as a woman would think that any woman would expose herself to the sort of lofty accusations that you level - quite apart from the savaging that she is guarenteed to receive in court from the accused eight-figures-a-day QC - then I suggest I have a somewhat more rounded grasp of the thinking of your gender than you appear to exhibit.
By all means dip out of the debate - I would not wish you to demean yourself any further with your current position.
Did you read my last post?
Have you read any of my posts?
I find your perception that these women have 'jumped on the bandwaggon' as you put it to be cold in the extreme.
If you as a woman would think that any woman would expose herself to the sort of lofty accusations that you level - quite apart from the savaging that she is guarenteed to receive in court from the accused eight-figures-a-day QC - then I suggest I have a somewhat more rounded grasp of the thinking of your gender than you appear to exhibit.
By all means dip out of the debate - I would not wish you to demean yourself any further with your current position.
I answered Naomi on her thread......I was goosed by the owner of a hotel...looking back I should have slapped or punched him but I was too surprised to react.
I wouldn't have started a court case on that occasion.....but maybe a word in the ear of the local guard would have been a good thing to do.
The reaction I got from my mother when I told her about the sexual abuse I was subjected to when I was seven/eight kept me silent for many years.
However, had he done it to someone else...which I now think he must have done....and she had been brave enough to come forward twenty or thirty years later I would have spoken out in support of her.....and not in the hope of compensation.
I wouldn't have started a court case on that occasion.....but maybe a word in the ear of the local guard would have been a good thing to do.
The reaction I got from my mother when I told her about the sexual abuse I was subjected to when I was seven/eight kept me silent for many years.
However, had he done it to someone else...which I now think he must have done....and she had been brave enough to come forward twenty or thirty years later I would have spoken out in support of her.....and not in the hope of compensation.
