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Dave Lee Travis Sentence To Be Reviewed...
Dave Lee Travis indecent assault sentence to be reviewed - http://
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Those who cry 'unduly lenient' are perhaps looking at this too narrow. DLT has a conviction against his name, has suffered the long anguish of two trials which has obviously taken its toll on his health. His reputation has been tarnished, his finances have taken a battering, sold his home to finance his costs etc. Put the sum total together of his 'punishment'...
15:30 Mon 29th Sep 2014
I can appreciate agchristie's point, but that is not how the law works.
Mr Travis had the option of pleading guilty to the charge of which he was convicted.
He chose not to do so, and to elect to go to trial, and to employ expensive legal counsel, so the notion that he has 'suffered' enough is not the issue here.
The law acts dispassionately, as it must, and the sentence will be reviewed in accordance with the same factual references and approach that allowed the case to conclude - i.e. with no apparent mitigation based on what the convicted individual is perceived to have 'gone through' already.
That is the way the law functions, and it is the only way the law can function - no semtiment, so one case being treated unlike another. We shall wait and see.
Mr Travis had the option of pleading guilty to the charge of which he was convicted.
He chose not to do so, and to elect to go to trial, and to employ expensive legal counsel, so the notion that he has 'suffered' enough is not the issue here.
The law acts dispassionately, as it must, and the sentence will be reviewed in accordance with the same factual references and approach that allowed the case to conclude - i.e. with no apparent mitigation based on what the convicted individual is perceived to have 'gone through' already.
That is the way the law functions, and it is the only way the law can function - no semtiment, so one case being treated unlike another. We shall wait and see.
naomi24 - "We know all that - but it doesn't detract from the fact that for one moment of indiscretion twenty years ago, this man has lost rather more than his crime warrants."
The law - and Mr Travis's victim, would argue with you there.
It is the arrogance of the man that I find hard to stomach.
Even after being convicted, he still could not bring himself to apologise to his victim, who has been through at least as much, if not more or an ordeal than he has.
It is this apparent unwillingness to take a look at himself and his behaviour objectively, that has landed Mr Travis in this position.
As I opined on an earlier post - and he confirmed out of his own mouth, he perceives himself to be a 'tactile cuddly' person. And it appears, not one who is willing to step outside himself and accept that his attitude is not received in the way he thinks it is offered, and that shows a total lack of self-awareness and respect for other people.
But as I have advised on this post - that will not be taken into account - nor should it, by the sentencing review committee, but I would finish by suggesting that your ability to brush off his crime on the basis that he has 'suffered enough' is not a stance shared by the victim, or the law.
The law - and Mr Travis's victim, would argue with you there.
It is the arrogance of the man that I find hard to stomach.
Even after being convicted, he still could not bring himself to apologise to his victim, who has been through at least as much, if not more or an ordeal than he has.
It is this apparent unwillingness to take a look at himself and his behaviour objectively, that has landed Mr Travis in this position.
As I opined on an earlier post - and he confirmed out of his own mouth, he perceives himself to be a 'tactile cuddly' person. And it appears, not one who is willing to step outside himself and accept that his attitude is not received in the way he thinks it is offered, and that shows a total lack of self-awareness and respect for other people.
But as I have advised on this post - that will not be taken into account - nor should it, by the sentencing review committee, but I would finish by suggesting that your ability to brush off his crime on the basis that he has 'suffered enough' is not a stance shared by the victim, or the law.
sunny-dave - "Andy - it's not 'dispassionate' when the decision to appeal against sentence is in the hands of a very partisan and flawed Attorney General.
As I said earlier, he appears to be acting as part of act of vindictive witch-hunting by a frustrated prosecutor."
If you have some evidence to back your opinion, I would be interested to read it, otherwise it remains your opinion.
As I said earlier, he appears to be acting as part of act of vindictive witch-hunting by a frustrated prosecutor."
If you have some evidence to back your opinion, I would be interested to read it, otherwise it remains your opinion.
"Four complaints", andy - hardly a tidal wave of irresistible dimensions?
There have been other cases where a petition of many thousands of signatures has failed to provoke an appeal against sentence - but here 'four complaints' is enough??
I really do have no time for DLT (or gropers in general) - but this stinks to high heaven.
There have been other cases where a petition of many thousands of signatures has failed to provoke an appeal against sentence - but here 'four complaints' is enough??
I really do have no time for DLT (or gropers in general) - but this stinks to high heaven.
sunny-dave - ""Four complaints", andy - hardly a tidal wave of irresistible dimensions?
There have been other cases where a petition of many thousands of signatures has failed to provoke an appeal against sentence - but here 'four complaints' is enough??
I really do have no time for DLT (or gropers in general) - but this stinks to high heaven."
I confess to total ignorance regarding the sentencing system in this country - I find it baffling as I am sure do many others.
But I like to think that the Atourney General is able to be called to account for his decisions, and not simply conduct personal witch hunts, as you seem to be believe he can and does.
I shall be back in the morning to continue.
Good night everyone.
There have been other cases where a petition of many thousands of signatures has failed to provoke an appeal against sentence - but here 'four complaints' is enough??
I really do have no time for DLT (or gropers in general) - but this stinks to high heaven."
I confess to total ignorance regarding the sentencing system in this country - I find it baffling as I am sure do many others.
But I like to think that the Atourney General is able to be called to account for his decisions, and not simply conduct personal witch hunts, as you seem to be believe he can and does.
I shall be back in the morning to continue.
Good night everyone.
// The law acts dispassionately, as it must, and the sentence will be reviewed in accordance with the same factual references and approach that allowed the case to conclude //
Andy I admire and applaud the high flown sentiments
and envy the fluency with which they were expressed.
but if only it were so ....
I listened to the journalist - the one whose allegations were not proven - and thought blimey presumably men demand a chaperone when you interview them nowadays- or else say - er no thanks
Andy I admire and applaud the high flown sentiments
and envy the fluency with which they were expressed.
but if only it were so ....
I listened to the journalist - the one whose allegations were not proven - and thought blimey presumably men demand a chaperone when you interview them nowadays- or else say - er no thanks
naomi24 - "Andy, get real. He groped her boob twenty years ago! She's had plenty of time to get over the experience as most of us who have been in a similar situation have. Dave is right. This stinks."
I think I am being real.
The court evidence does not suggest that Travis 'groped her boob' as you put it, but that the lady in question was the victim of a sustained sexual assault. Since he has heard evidence, which you and I have not, I feel I must bow to his knowledge of what occurred.
I find it cheering that you are able to shrug off such an event, especially with the passage of time, but surely you must appreciate that not everyone is blessed with your robust mental constitution.
One woman's forgotten-in-the-mists-if-time grope is another woman's never-forgotton trauma, and we should make allowances for that difference in perceptions.
Your position appears to comply with a perception that 'it went on at the time' - which it undoubtedly did, but that does not mean that everyone has assimilated it into their life in quite the way that you have been fortunate enough to do.
I have no idea how sexual assault feels for a woman - but I appear to be possessed of more empathy for the victim, which I find odd, given our gender disparity.
I think I am being real.
The court evidence does not suggest that Travis 'groped her boob' as you put it, but that the lady in question was the victim of a sustained sexual assault. Since he has heard evidence, which you and I have not, I feel I must bow to his knowledge of what occurred.
I find it cheering that you are able to shrug off such an event, especially with the passage of time, but surely you must appreciate that not everyone is blessed with your robust mental constitution.
One woman's forgotten-in-the-mists-if-time grope is another woman's never-forgotton trauma, and we should make allowances for that difference in perceptions.
Your position appears to comply with a perception that 'it went on at the time' - which it undoubtedly did, but that does not mean that everyone has assimilated it into their life in quite the way that you have been fortunate enough to do.
I have no idea how sexual assault feels for a woman - but I appear to be possessed of more empathy for the victim, which I find odd, given our gender disparity.
agchristie - "Stuart Hall's case was declared 'unduly lenient' but the judge in his summing up in the Travis case stated that his offence was not of the same magnitude of others prosecuted under Yewtree.
It does not compare and is not lenient in my view."
It does not compare, that is true, but the law does not work on a system of comparisons - it sentences for the offence in question - the severity or not of other offences is not an issue, and is not relevent.
It does not compare and is not lenient in my view."
It does not compare, that is true, but the law does not work on a system of comparisons - it sentences for the offence in question - the severity or not of other offences is not an issue, and is not relevent.
// It does not compare, that is true, but the law does not work on a system of comparisons //
erm very well put
but not that accurate
the whole of English law is based on precedent - that is a comparison of what has happened previously and a sense that it is unfair not to follow previous leads
and sentencing is based on sentencing guidelines where you compare against a set list, in order to rule out wild variations in sentences
other than that I cant find anything wrong with Andy's analysis
[ er yeah I am prepared for a flood of 'what's he on about?' ]
erm very well put
but not that accurate
the whole of English law is based on precedent - that is a comparison of what has happened previously and a sense that it is unfair not to follow previous leads
and sentencing is based on sentencing guidelines where you compare against a set list, in order to rule out wild variations in sentences
other than that I cant find anything wrong with Andy's analysis
[ er yeah I am prepared for a flood of 'what's he on about?' ]
Andy, I was pointing out what the judge himself said and the distinction in the gravity of the offences between earlier prosecutions and that of Travis. His sentencing reflected the offence but also the considerable health and financial issues to himself.
Peter is correct regarding case law and sentencing guidelines.
Peter is correct regarding case law and sentencing guidelines.
Andy, //He [the judge] described the assault, saying Travis had approached the woman, who was in her first job after university, while she was having a cigarette. He said Travis had told her to consider her lungs, while sliding his hands up her chest on onto her breasts, which he squeezed.//
http://
Look, what he did wasn’t right, but that moment of stupid indiscretion has been blown out of all proportion – not least by people like you who erroneously claim it to have been a ‘sustained sexual assault”. It wasn’t. Furthermore, the ‘traumatised’ victim, who has waited almost twenty years before reporting the incident to the police, said she felt “lucky that I was psychologically robust enough to deal with the distress” and said she had used humour as a defence.” - but let’s not allow the facts get in the way of a good drama.
As I said, get real Andy. The man’s lost his home, his job, and his reputation. As agchristie says, he’s been punished enough.
http://
Look, what he did wasn’t right, but that moment of stupid indiscretion has been blown out of all proportion – not least by people like you who erroneously claim it to have been a ‘sustained sexual assault”. It wasn’t. Furthermore, the ‘traumatised’ victim, who has waited almost twenty years before reporting the incident to the police, said she felt “lucky that I was psychologically robust enough to deal with the distress” and said she had used humour as a defence.” - but let’s not allow the facts get in the way of a good drama.
As I said, get real Andy. The man’s lost his home, his job, and his reputation. As agchristie says, he’s been punished enough.
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