Whatever Happenned To The Right To Refuse Service?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-29926372

[sp1814]

ummm

I agree with you. I would use another bakery, and I would mention it to my mates, if they were planning to use it in future.

But again, I don't think the claimants have a strong case.

[sp1814]

Incidentally - by 'religious fundamentalists', I'm referring to those whose core values are dictated by their observance. It's not supposed to sound like 'a negative', just descriptive.

As I am sure we are all aware, not all Christians are 'conservative'. We have many who are very liberal in their dealings with those whom their books claim are 'sinners'.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// There is nothing in the story to indicate the bakery was targeted. ///

And there is nothing in the story to indicate that it was not.

All your other points are invalid.

[naomi24]

We reached a very sorry state of affairs when people are obliged, under threat of legislation, to conceal their principles – or worse, to lie. Those of a religious persuasion who feel unable to do a job they’re employed to do shouldn’t be in the job in the first place, but business owners must be at liberty to decide what services they are willing to provide.

[naomi24]

*We've

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// I agree with you. I would use another bakery, and I would mention it to my mates, if they were planning to use it in future ///

Make up your mind, you earlier put:

/// I don't support the, "Just go somewhere else" principle, because that opens up a pretty nasty set of end points. ///

[jim360]

AOG, it's really up to you to prove that the bakery was specifically targeted, rather than the other way round, since that's quite a strong allegation to make.

I'm not a fan of the baker's choice not to bake this cake, but I can see why he might choose not to and I'd hope that the case goes in his favour. This is surely one of those times when freedom of expression has to work both ways.

[janbee]

It's only a poxy cake for heavens sake. Why not just bake the darned thing and be done with it.? Why make it an issue of rights for or against.? It's just a cake. My bigger question is, why is anybody , nowadays ,stupid enough to get married, gay, straight whatever? Stay single, stay happy.

[Baldric]

//There is nothing in the story to indicate the bakery was targeted//

The use of the term 'Gay Activist' does tend to give a biggish clue in my opinion!

[Baldric]

How come there are no Straight Activists that I'm aware of?

I wonder if it's because we're all comfortable with who/what we are, and don't feel the need to seek publicity?

[sp1814]

AOG

I will explain my position.

If it were me, and I had been refused service (specifically for this cake), I would have been pragmatic. I would not have brought a court case.

However, that is my choice.

I do not support the idea that in general, people can be discriminated against without recourse to resolution.

Just because I may not decide on a particular course of action doesn't mean that I agree that the course should not be open to others.

Hope that explains it.

[LochNessMonster]

I thought you could get fairy cakes everywhere ?

[sp1814]

Baldric

Or could it be because straight people in general don't face the same issues that gay people do?

Have you ever considered that?

Like for instance, in which countries is it currently illegal to be straight?

What percentage of straight kids are chucked out of their homes when their parents discover they are attracted to the opposite sex?

How many straight blokes end up looking like this because they've been identified as being straight by a group of gay men:

http://www.itv.com/news/london/2014-11-03/vicious-homophobic-halloween-attack-by-thugs-dressed-in-fairy-costumes/

How many church leaders condemn straight people for being straight?

Which passages in the Koran / Bible specifically condemn straight people as sinners (due to nothing more than their sexuality)?

These may seem like strange questions, but I only ask because it seems that you believe gay activities are only out for 'publicity', whereas I believe they are working towards the goal of equality.

You may not agree with this in principle, but your response from 11:55am reads a little...smug.

But it's entirely possible that I've misread you.

[sp1814]

Ahem...for 'gay activities', read 'gay activists'.

Freudian slip of catastrophic levels.

[ToraToraTora]

fools on both sides as far as I can tell. The bakers should have just refused the order and not commented further. If the customers where doing it to wind them up then that would have killed it stone dead. This is clear case of targetting followed by a clear case of playing into their hands. Same with the B&B incident.

[ludwig]

// I do not support the idea that in general, people can be discriminated against without recourse to resolution. //

No-one's been discriminated against here.

As I said, a straight person asking for the same cake would have been refused.

[Baldric]

Smug? Not at all.
Just a statement of fact, followed by a '?' to invite comment.

I have no problem at all with gay people, only the ones like this Gay Activist and others who continually seek confrontation and publicity for the cause, in a 'look at me, I'm special' kind of way. You have said in the past the majority want equality not special treatment, have a quiet word with the minority will you? because frankly they're becoming tedious, and do you no favours.

[sp1814]

Baldric

I don't think I would want to have 'a quiet word' with anyone who fights for equality.

It might be tiresome to some, but on balance, I think activism has lead to some extremely good things. I'm not confident that we would have equal marriage, equal age of consent, the repeal of Section 28 etc, without the 'noisy gays'.