Ched Evans, Is He A Victim Here, Too?

[sandyRoe]

I wouldn't have thought so, but others seem to think differently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30093565

[hc4361]

If he has been wrongly convicted of course he is a victim but we don't know that he was.

[Zeuhl]

^
Indeed
If he is going to test out his plea of innocence in an Appeal he really should keep his head down until that process is completed.

[sandyRoe]

Has he not already lost an appeal?

[jim360]

I wouldn't call him a victim yet, but we're getting dangerously close to mob justice if he's barred from returning to his former job. I can understand the outrage, and even share it to an extent, but he has now served the time and whether or not he did it that is the punishment handed to him over. If he decides to return to football he should be able to, although of course it's a matter for individual clubs as to whether or not they sign him.

[Zeuhl]

/of course it's a matter for individual clubs as to whether or not they sign him./

so inevitably market forces will prevail

the financial backers of any club will need to balance him as an asset versus a liability

it would be no different to him returning to work as (say) a plumber

an employer would have to weigh up whether clients would want him in their homes or premises

[youngmafbog]

And sponsors and those whose name could be associated too jim.

We must remember, at present, he has been found guilty by a Court (not the media or a mob) so that is what people must judge on too.

[mushroom25]

DB, are you suggesting that there are "degrees of rape"?
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/may/23/tory-mep-rape-kenneth-clarke-helmer

[jim360]

The bad part of that phrase is in shifting any responsibility at all to the victim. Even in the second case described she has none. "The boy, unable to restrain himself..." ... if you have no self-control you are entirely to blame for what you do. The idea that a girl changing her mind at the last minute is at fault for being indecisive is utterly wrong. In both cases the victim had sex against her will, and any degrees of difference between the two are associated to, say, the possibility of being also physically assaulted. But then it's more serious because two separate crimes were committed, rather than just one.

[Ellipsis]

> we're getting dangerously close to mob justice if he's barred from returning to his former job

Disagree.

Footballers are paid vast sums because they are entertainers. If he was an entertainer in another line - e.g. Rolf Harris - he would not expect to be able to return to his former job and be paid vast sums of money, because the public (or "the mob") don't want that, and therefore nor do the sponsors etc. The same applies to footballers IMO.

If he's innocent, that's a different matter ...

[Zeuhl]

/are you suggesting that there are "degrees of rape"? /

there are degrees of most things - certainly crimes

Is shoplifting a bottle of wine as bad as mugging someone at knifepoint?

they are both Theft and both wrong

Is striking someone in a momentary loss of control as bad as torturing someone to death over several days?

they are both Homicide and both wrong

Is taking advantage of a drunk person you have been socializing with to have sex with them as bad as dragging a victim off the street at knife point?

they are both rape and both wrong

but if you can't see any degrees of difference how will you treat one more severely than the other?

[ChillDoubt]

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question1379288.html

[jim360]

To a point perhaps, ellipsis, but then in a sense that people watch football at all is a "secondary" part of it. There could be no live audience at all and he could still play games, etc. The public element is, I think, a distraction. Besides which, former criminals or wrongdoers can sometimes end up being popular in entertainment anyway. The righteous anger can blow over and you are left with the jokes/ music, which can still be the same quality.

No, he should in principle be able to return. The only people who can make that decision are the prospective employers, who are the football clubs and not the paying public.

[Svejk]

Let's remember that at no stage has this girl claimed she said 'no'. She did claim she was too drunk to remember anything, which begs the question how did one man get cleared and another convicted.

[Deskdiary]

Ched Evans is guilty - a jury of his peers found him so.

However, if he genuinely feels he is innocent, then this must be eating him up inside; I know if I was convicted of something I had not done, I would do all in my power to prove my innocence.....and therefore if he genuinely feels he is innocent, I'm not surprised by what he's doing and can't blame him for doing so.

There have been a number of people saying they he should just 'accept the conviction and move-on' This is an incredibly stupid thing to say, and to those that have said it, I'm willing to bet they would not 'move-on' if they had been convicted of a crime as serious as this if they felt they were innocent.

So yes, if he is innocent, he is a victim of a miscarriage of justice.

[jim360]

As regards the question of degrees as posed by divebuddy: without being too familiar with the case I can't comment perfectly, but if indeed it was a "revenge" rape then I'd hope to see a far tougher sentence for that one. There was no lapse in judgement/ spur of the moment aspect that can act as a mitigating factor. Sounds like the sort of thing that maybe was done by young teenagers? That's about the only reason I can think of, other than maximum sentencing guidelines, that justifies the similar sentence.

[Ellipsis]

He is welcome to play football at any time, for free, with anybody prepared to share a pitch with him.

If he wants to be paid for playing it then the public element is far from a distraction, it's the very reason he's paid for it.