Fighters Returning From Syria.

[sandyRoe]

There was a story in the Mirror last week about former British Army men who are in Syria fighting against ISIS. When they return to the UK do they risk finding themselves in the same boat as these brothers?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30213771

[Gromit]

They were in Syria with the group Junud al-Shaam. Their aim is the overthrow of Assad's regime in Syria.

The British Government's policy in Syria is the overthrow of the Assad Regime.

So we are locking people up who are fighting our enemy Assad.

Utter madness.

[JackKnife]

well the problem is that whilst Assad is the enemy, IS are the worse enemy so it's all a bit complex. So gromit says they were fighting Assad and sandy says they are fighting IS. On balance Assad is the lesser of 2 evils I guess but I'm confused!

[Gromit]

You can read about the ex-British soldier mercenaries here.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/22/uk-mercenaries-fighting-islamic-state-terrorist-syria

Jhadists fighting Assad = Terrorists
Mercenaries killing Jhadists fighting Assad = Good

Utter madness.

[JackKnife]

ok so what should be happenning? are you saying we should be supporting IS against Assad?

[sandyRoe]

If the State Department had based its decisions on Realpolitik, Assad and Saddam would still be safely in power in their respective countries. They kept the lid on things.
It's hard to know who are the good guys in Syria now.

[Gromit]

Sandy,

Assad and Saddam were allied with the Russians.
The State Department wanted them replaced with pro western democracies, the Turkush model. Unfortunately, the ensuing civil wars did not lead to democratic Governments, but toward religious dictatorships.

[sandyRoe]

'Byzantine complexity' doesn't begin to describe it. The fable about the Log King is something the American policy makers would do well to muse on.

[youngmafbog]

The answer is quite simple.

Dont be a mercenary in the Middle East or you will get trouble one way or another.

[JackKnife]

so we have the bad guys and the even worse guys, I'd say we need to prioritise!

[anotheoldgit]

I notice that sandy has chosen not to include a link to his thread only one from the negative side, well let me oblige, one from the Daily Mail (others are similar), and one from the Guardian which chose to call them ' mercenaries' which Gromit soon locked on to.

/// On the website of the security firm they founded, Mr Hughes and Mr Read said they were motivated by ‘conscience’, not money, to travel to the warzone ‘to assist innocent people in the face of terror from IS’. ///

/// Insisting they were volunteer fighters, not guns for hire, the ex-servicemen said they would ‘not do nothing while innocent men, women and children are tortured and murdered by Islamic State while the international community stands by and observes from the luxury of their boardrooms or their tanks on the hill’. ///

They are not mercenaries since they say they are not being paid, are they any different to those who go out to foreign climes offering aid so as to help people who are in danger and distress?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2846023/Former-British-infantryman-joins-Kurdish-fighters-Syria-defending-beleaguered-town-against-ISIS.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/22/uk-mercenaries-fighting-islamic-state-terrorist-syria

[sandyRoe]

AOG, I included a link which was relevant to the question. The young brothers mentioned in it went to try and help overthrow a tyrant. This was an act of pure altruism worthy of our approbation. And what happened when they returned? They were thrown into prison.

[Peter Pedant]

.

Sandyyyy - a bit of special pleading there....

if there is a law we dont wanna obey - we are free to disobey it,
but then you are obliged to take the penalty...

we all know that - there is a particular Finance Act I dont like, but I still have to pay the tax man's penalties....

as for there are bad guy and worse guys - how confusing
not really
Post 1945 the Russians who were good became bad very quickly and then in 1989 became good but have recently gone bad
and the Germans who were bad became good very quickly
Tito in Yug, was very good and then became good
and in Poland....

and we never really got confused....much

[anotheoldgit]

sandyRoe

/// The young brothers mentioned in it went to try and help overthrow a tyrant. This was an act of pure altruism worthy of our approbation. ///

Worthy of our warm approval and praise????????????

I don't think so.

No they had joined a terrorist training camp, and on their return to the UK they would have been a risk to you, myself and everyone else who lives in the UK.

*** "The evidence shows you were there for jihad, or holy war, and wanted to join an extremist group." ***

*** The Old Bailey heard that Mohommod Nawaz was previously convicted in 2009 of blackmail, false imprisonment, kidnap and wounding. ***

*** He and others held the kidnap victim for 23 hours after snatching him outside his home. ***

*** They covered his head, stole his Rolex watch and cut and burnt him until he handed over his bank card pin number. ***

*** Nawaz and the others kept the man handcuffed and bound and threatened to cut off his fingers while they asked his family for £70,000. ***

*** He was subsequently jailed for six years - and his release on licence included a condition banning him from travelling outside the UK. ***

Nice background eh, still think that this was "an act of pure altruism worthy of our approbation"?

[sandyRoe]

War can bring out the worst and best of people. Whatever that young man did in the past he's redeemed himself by going to oppose murderous tyranny in a distant land.

[Svejk]

Strange that all the displaced people, Yazidis etc. were desperately trying to get to the Assad controlled part of Syria as the only safe haven in the region.
I know you lefty's love an Islamist but I wish you'd consider other people before spouting your narrow-minded, rote-learnt ideology.

[anotheoldgit]

sandyRoe

So obviously you would have been more happy if these two were released back into the community then, so as to practice some of the evil they have learnt in their terrorist training camp here in the UK?

[ichkeria]

As a matter of fact the west supported Assad as long as he was not massacring his own people. No one minded that he Russia was an ally indeed and why should they. It was of little consequence to anyone' else as the Cold War mentality is still alive and well in the Kremlin as it always has been
Unlike the Russains however the west turned against him when he started the war ( and He did start it) against his opponents.

[anotheoldgit]

ichkeria

/// Unlike the Russains however the west turned against him when he started the war ( and He did start it) against his opponents. ///

It all depends on whether or not you class an uprising as a war?

[Orderlimit]

Brave men.

[Gromit]

// and one from the Guardian which chose to call them ' mercenaries' which Gromit soon locked on to. //

They are mercenaries.
I posted the link to be helpful, it was the first one that popped up on a Google search, not because it was from the Guardian. I rarely link to the Guardian.