A Bravado Racist Chant Maybe, But A Real Act Of Racism?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/feb/18/racist-chelsea-fans-push-black-man-paris-metro

Much has been said and reported about the Chelsea fans behaviour in France, mainly due to the Video obtained by the Guardian.

Well apart from the ridiculous chant from a football crowd, and many of us have become accustomed to these over the years, was it enough for calls for the perpetrators to answer to be banned and face the law?

As far as I could see from the video, the black man was walking along the platform, until he got to the open door of the carriage containing the football crowd.

Now what was said, perhaps we will never know, but instead of the black man trying to board the train was he actually trying to confront these football supporters in an aggressive way, and if he was isn't it obvious that they would try and push him away.

Yes we all know that the crowd were suppose to be shouting "We’re racist, we’re racist, and that’s the way we like it". (because the Guardian has told us that), but in the true football crowd tradition was this just to get back at their opponent.

I am in no way condoning an act of racism if that is what it was, but before you condemn me look at the video again.

[sp1814]

I'm going to believe AOG when he says he's playing devil's advocate.

Unfortunately, this clip is a fairly poor choice of subject as it's pretty much a slam dunk.

Note too how another black passenger departs the carriage rather than subject herself to the gang?

I'm genuinely surprised by this clip. I thought that football (or rather football fans) had left this behaviour behind in the 80s.

[anotheoldgit]

alavahalf

/// ..... Angry Black Parisian office worker hurls abuse at a carriage full of white English day trippers .... ///

Who has seen it that way???????????

[andy-hughes]

AOG - "I would have thought that a so called educated person you would ghave had no difficulty in interpreting that Andy?"

By all means accuse me (unfairly) of a cheap jibe if you wish AOG, but if you wish to tame the moral high ground - as you so often do - then you cannot offer an equally cheap jibe 'so-called educated person' in return.

Admit it, your Devil's Advocacy has backfired spectacularly.

Why you feel the need to take it on yourself to 'wake us all up ...' I have absolutely no idea, but again, it has backfired on you, and now you seem keen to be a snit and pick a fight, which is your usual response when you find yourself unable to defend your position.

You are willing to accuse me of being pompous, but I never treat the News section as if it is my own personal fiefdom, as you have done today.

Best to retire gracefully and return on another, more sensible and reasonable thread - that shouldn't be very difficult.

[andy-hughes]

'Take', rather than 'tame'.

[jno]

chanting "we're racist, we're racist" isn't racist?

Yes, I can really see that.

[sp1814]

AOG

I really need to understand a couple of things...

1. Can you hear the mob chanting "We're racist, we're racist and that's the way we like it" from about 27 second into the clip.

2. At what point in the clip did you see the empty carriage?

[ummmm]

Yeah, jno, complete over reaction from a lone man acting all unaggressive!!

[Tilly2]

Where's the reference to an empty carriage?

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

Yet another clip of that video, that proves nothing except on that one I can here the chant, but did you notice that the black man was not in the doorway when it was being chanted, although a black woman was, and who showed no emotion towards it.

Also notice that the crowd in the carriage did not appear to be chanting, not that I am saying that the chant never happened but if it did it looks as if it was superimposed on a different section of the video.

[ummmm]

Again...excuses for racism.

[ummmm]

AOG...do you think there might be a chance the black women didn't understand what they were chanting?

[vetuste_ennemi]

What does anybody think Chelsea FC should do about this racist incident (if anything)?

[-Talbot-]

Superimposed my ***. As I said on the TTT thread, I think the Chelsea morons were just chanting 'we're racist' to the French in general. Notice the white French people never attempted to board the train.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - "Yet another clip of that video, that proves nothing except on that one I can here the chant, but did you notice that the black man was not in the doorway when it was being chanted, although a black woman was, and who showed no emotion towards it.

Also notice that the crowd in the carriage did not appear to be chanting, not that I am saying that the chant never happened but if it did it looks as if it was superimposed on a different section of the video."

And the Award for continuing to hold a debate position in the face of 100% disagreement, and an increasingly desperate attempt to stir up a 'debate' where one clearly does not exist, goes to .....

[RandyMarsh]

I am going to side with AOG, the racist chant was not aimed at the black chap, it is a chant about John Terry. The black chap was clearly being confrontational and should think himself lucky he did not get a clip round the ear.

Meanwhile back in the real world the 1840's have been on asking if AOG wants his credibility back.

[anotheoldgit]

Bazile

/// Erm - the behaviour against him started after he tried to board the train ///

Of course it did I am not denying that, but the carriage door was open, who can possibly say what exchange took place as he approached the open door, and before anyone says "ah yes it was all down to what the black man said", it most probably wasn't, we don't know what exchanges took place, and we don't know if he was attempting to board the train so as to travel or to take on his opponents. that is all I am saying.

But it is clear by the responses that this as attracted, it is a perfect example of mob rule, someone says this is what happened without any definite proof and the rest of the mob cries "lynch them".

Well I happen to possess a mind of my own and until such time that there is definite proof rather than an obviously edited clip vie the Guardian, (which would not stand up in a court of law), I will continue to have my doubts.

[anotheoldgit]

Tilly2

/// I think AOG has just lit the blue touch paper and cleared off to snigger in a corner. ///

Who's cleared off Tilly, I have stood my corner throughout.

[ummmm]

You have to be kidding, AOG!! You're looking more and more foolish with every post!

[dave50]

If one of this gang had punched someone and put them in hospital would had there been as much uproar? No, I dont think their would. Name calling is now a more serious offence than any violent attack it seems.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-highes

/// It wouldn't be the first time Till!! ///

Once again completely uncalled for, call yourself a debater you just go along with the crowd so as to court friendship.

Am I not allowed an opinion of my own based on the flimsy evidence before me. This would not stand up in any court in the land.