Who Still Thinks That The Uk Is Not Overcrowded?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/590397/Population-overload-Britain-houses-one-in-eight-ALL-EU-residents

/// Despite its tiny size, Britain now has the third largest population in Europe behind Germany and France, the European Commission statistics show. And it is more densely populated than both. ///

[Gromit]

New Judge,

You are convincing me that euthanasia may not be a bad thing.

[hc4361]

Interesting reading, although 3 years old:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2011692/A-green-pleasant-land-Map-reveals-half-Britain-countryside.html

And this from last year:
http://ampp3d.mirror.co.uk/2014/01/13/house-building-10-percent-england/

[Gromit]

// I’m interested in the notion that population growth is attributable to “ageing”. //

The subject of ageing was in reply to your post about housing shortages, not about population.

[retrocop]

Gromit @1657
Seems from your previous threads that more than one ABer on this OP had thought you had already decided that final solution.

[New Judge]

Sorry to have misunderstood, Gromit. Perhaps you can understand why when I quote from the article you cited (and from which you usefully provided an extract):

“But it’s important to remember the majority of that population growth, has not been as a result of immigration. The majority of that growth, about two thirds, has been as a result of ageing. //

Sorry, but Mr Boles needs to engage brain before opening mouth as that statement is idiotic.

[Old_Geezer]

People surviving longer can't be a major contribution, after all they go eventually, after what, a decade or so ? Too many offspring, immigration, and immigrants who traditionally have larger families are bound to be the drivers of the problem.

[New Judge]

As I think I have demonstrated, OG, longevity cannot make ANY contribution to population growth.

[retrocop]

So after some back pedalling us of the older generation have been generously exonerated from causing over crowding in the country we were born in and remaining in the property we struggled and worked hard for to buy.
So the question remains.Is the UK overcrowded. Lets blame the young then shall we.Those who produce more children than they can afford to accommodate thus selfishly thinking that others should down size for their benefit.
We also have people not from this country,originally ,who openly state that it is their duty to the king of the fairies to produce more adherents to his cause to spread the faith over the world.
So the sense of entitlement is we are allowed to have as many children as we want and WE expect housing and utilities to be provided to accommodate our wishes.
So the contented oldie,who has always been here over the ages can feel he is not the problem to the quart into the pint pot syndrome and not cutting your cloth accordingly. I will sleep well knowing not to expect an eviction notice. :-)

[fiction-factory]

Surely, NJ, increased longevity must contribute to an increase in the population. We are living much longer than we used to. If births continue at the same rate but fewer people die each year then the population increases. If we take an extreme scenario- most people start to live to 200 - then death rates will slow down. at some point in a few hundred years things may level off if longevity falls/stays still.
But immigration is of course another factor

[pixie374]

It does, factor, although it's nobody's "fault". It's about numbers, not individuals and people can't delay having children for an extra 30 years because previous generations are living longer.

[BRIGHT SPARK]

Longevity does not increase population but it does move the calculation goalposts as far as forcasting future numbers

[pixie374]

The numbers increase because of longevity too, though. Children used to "replace" grandparents (in numbers), now there are often three or four generations above them. The fertile ages haven't changed much, only the life expectancies.

[New Judge]

Sorry both, but I disagree.

Numbers increase because more people arrive, not because those already here stay longer. If nobody else arrived it would not matter if those already here lived forevermore, the population would not increase.

Leaving aside the contentious issue of immigration for a moment, to accommodate longer life expectancy and to keep the population stable birth rates must decline. It is not possible to control life expectancy (unless you want to kill people or not offer them available medical treatment).

You are quite right, f-f, "if births continue at the same rate" then the population will rise as longevity increases. But to keep the population stable (which I believe is highly desireable if not essential) then birth rates (and immigration, to harp back to it for a moment) must fall. Mr Boles, in his wisdom, put forward the contention "The majority of that growth [in population], about two thirds, has been as a result of ageing."

The man is a bufoon.

[pixie374]

Just decreasing the birth rate just means an older population, which causes different problems. The birth rate has decreased constantly over the last 65 years, but like I said, people won't wait an extra 30 years to have their first child, which is what would be needed for a stable population.

[pixie374]

...even more actually. 100 years ago, average life expectancy was 44 for men and 48 for women. It's now 85 for women. So logically, each generation needs to be delayed by an extra 37 years, to keep it constant.

[New Judge]

That wouldn't be necessary, Pixie.

All that is needed is for the average birth rate to reduce to considerably less than two. If most people had just one child it would not matter when they had it and it would take a considerable life expectancy increase (far more than is likely) to see an increasing population.

Yes, an ageing population brings problems (too few youngsters to care for older people etc.) but these problems are easily overcome and are but nothing compared to the problems that excessive overall population brings.

[New Judge]

There's every chance the 2011 census will be the last, methyl:

http://www.demographicsusergroup.co.uk/resources/Beyond+the+2011+Census+in+the+UK+-+IJMR+-+Web+version.pdf

It seems it may be replaced with a "survey". I'm sure it will be more accurate!