Jobs & Education1 min ago
Muslims To Be Placed In Separate Category Of Hate Crime.
83 Answers
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/// The commitment to record anti-Muslim offences as a separate category of hate crime was first made in the Conservative party manifesto and is designed to reassure Muslim communities that the government’s strategy will be balanced. ///
How can this possibly be balanced when it is only two religions who get the privilege of being placed in a separate category of hate crime?
/// The commitment to record anti-Muslim offences as a separate category of hate crime was first made in the Conservative party manifesto and is designed to reassure Muslim communities that the government’s strategy will be balanced. ///
How can this possibly be balanced when it is only two religions who get the privilege of being placed in a separate category of hate crime?
Answers
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Bobsy
No hate is a crime.
Acting on it is though.
I hate all green vegetables. I cannot stand broccoli, spring greens, cabbage, pak choi, brussel sprouts and spinach.
This is my right.
It's not illegal.
However, if my hatred lead me to firebomb my local greengrocer, then that indeed would be a hate crime.
A vegetable hate crime.
No hate is a crime.
Acting on it is though.
I hate all green vegetables. I cannot stand broccoli, spring greens, cabbage, pak choi, brussel sprouts and spinach.
This is my right.
It's not illegal.
However, if my hatred lead me to firebomb my local greengrocer, then that indeed would be a hate crime.
A vegetable hate crime.
@bobsy
Hate isn't a crime in itself but some activities which are already defined as crimes - eg violence or property damage - can, when directed from one group to another, be said to have a race or faith-based element to them and are labelled "race-hate crimes", which is what we're talking about.
Muslim is not a race, hence I've specified "faith based" as an alternative basis for perceived differences.
Hate isn't a crime in itself but some activities which are already defined as crimes - eg violence or property damage - can, when directed from one group to another, be said to have a race or faith-based element to them and are labelled "race-hate crimes", which is what we're talking about.
Muslim is not a race, hence I've specified "faith based" as an alternative basis for perceived differences.
sp1814
/// I think it would be the height of stupidity to use newspaper reports to determine how crime it tackled. ///
Who said anything about using newspaper reports to determine how crime it tackled? I was just making a comment on the black crime figures.
/// The police need detailed analysis and this cannot be done by flipping through today's copy of Metro. ///
I am sure they do, and also have, if they choose to make them public is yet another matter.
/// I think it would be the height of stupidity to use newspaper reports to determine how crime it tackled. ///
Who said anything about using newspaper reports to determine how crime it tackled? I was just making a comment on the black crime figures.
/// The police need detailed analysis and this cannot be done by flipping through today's copy of Metro. ///
I am sure they do, and also have, if they choose to make them public is yet another matter.
sp1814
/// Without the recording of antisemetic attacks, would you know how many there had been this year? ///
Of course not, but without recording the number of any other attacks, no one could possible know the number of them.
And I will continue with my newspaper comment, we only get to know about them through the newspapers and the other media.
Unless of course you happen to be privileged enough to be able to gain access to police records.
/// Without the recording of antisemetic attacks, would you know how many there had been this year? ///
Of course not, but without recording the number of any other attacks, no one could possible know the number of them.
And I will continue with my newspaper comment, we only get to know about them through the newspapers and the other media.
Unless of course you happen to be privileged enough to be able to gain access to police records.
mikey4444
/// If we don't tabulate anti-Muslim hate crimes, how are we to know if they are increasing or not ? ///
Does it really matter, unless of course they know how to stop or decrease these attacks, and if they do, they should deploy the same methods to stop or decrease all attacks, regardless of race or religion.
/// If we don't tabulate anti-Muslim hate crimes, how are we to know if they are increasing or not ? ///
Does it really matter, unless of course they know how to stop or decrease these attacks, and if they do, they should deploy the same methods to stop or decrease all attacks, regardless of race or religion.
@aog
//Does it really matter//
It matters to "Call me Dave".
If you read his quotes, it is clear this is a top-down, politician driven thing, not something the Police have dreamt up because they think it will help stop actual violence.
Cameron wants a sop, to prove to Muslim communities that they are "tackling hate crime" but they need genuine stats to prove that the starting point was X and the end point was Y, with Y less than X.
People on the receiving end of hate do not need government figures to tell them things are getting steadily worse. (I am not speaking first-hand, obviously).
//Does it really matter//
It matters to "Call me Dave".
If you read his quotes, it is clear this is a top-down, politician driven thing, not something the Police have dreamt up because they think it will help stop actual violence.
Cameron wants a sop, to prove to Muslim communities that they are "tackling hate crime" but they need genuine stats to prove that the starting point was X and the end point was Y, with Y less than X.
People on the receiving end of hate do not need government figures to tell them things are getting steadily worse. (I am not speaking first-hand, obviously).
sp1814
/// It's fine for we the general public to form our opinions based on newspaper reports, but it's not a good idea for any public body to do so. ///
Yes if it was a left to them we would not find such matters out, don't want them to broadcast it to the general public, it might cause community tensions.
/// It's fine for we the general public to form our opinions based on newspaper reports, but it's not a good idea for any public body to do so. ///
Yes if it was a left to them we would not find such matters out, don't want them to broadcast it to the general public, it might cause community tensions.
I think I know why we see this differently.
I feel a little bit overjoyed when I see a bigot slapped with a heavier sentence when he or she is convicted with a specific hate crime.
I think that you would prefer that everyone had these tougher sentences applied, rather than disappointment that only bigots were punished thus.
Is that right?
If so, then that's a general observation on criminal sentencing - but it should be remembered that in the vast number of reported crimes, there is absolute equanimity.
It's not as if different groups are treated differently in cases of rape, fraud, murder, manslaughter, burglary etc.
So perhaps it's not worth getting to hopped up about?
I feel a little bit overjoyed when I see a bigot slapped with a heavier sentence when he or she is convicted with a specific hate crime.
I think that you would prefer that everyone had these tougher sentences applied, rather than disappointment that only bigots were punished thus.
Is that right?
If so, then that's a general observation on criminal sentencing - but it should be remembered that in the vast number of reported crimes, there is absolute equanimity.
It's not as if different groups are treated differently in cases of rape, fraud, murder, manslaughter, burglary etc.
So perhaps it's not worth getting to hopped up about?
AOG
Are you not aware of the ONS?
Fantastic source of raw data.
Not hidden in any way.
Loads of available PDFs ready to be downloaded any time you want.
That's where I like to turn to, rather than putting any trust in the prism of the national press.
After reading the excellent 'Flat Earth News', I have a healthy distrust of all (left, centre and right leaning) newspapers.
Are you not aware of the ONS?
Fantastic source of raw data.
Not hidden in any way.
Loads of available PDFs ready to be downloaded any time you want.
That's where I like to turn to, rather than putting any trust in the prism of the national press.
After reading the excellent 'Flat Earth News', I have a healthy distrust of all (left, centre and right leaning) newspapers.
ANOTHEOLDGIT if the police released figures saying there were a hundred serious assaults on adults in your town/city last month that may not raise too many eyebrows depending on the number of folk in your town/city.
If someone did a check and found out that half of them were attacks on folk in their eighties, might the police not be expected to keep a count of future victims in their eighties in particular to see if things improved or no?
If someone did a check and found out that half of them were attacks on folk in their eighties, might the police not be expected to keep a count of future victims in their eighties in particular to see if things improved or no?
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