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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
- Leave the European Union - 124 votes
- 75%
- Remain a member of the European Union - 42 votes
- 25%
Stats until: 07:55 Sat 23rd Nov 2024 (Refreshed every 5 minutes)
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Canary42
/// Thank you Jim for a sane and sensible set of posts in an increasing pool of unsubstantiated scaremongering and xenophobia. ///
I am sure Jim doesn't agree with you there, as he has already stated some can arrive at a different assessment to others.
So one is not guilty of unsubstantiated scaremongering, or even being xenophobic, it is just that they may hold a different opinion to you.
/// Thank you Jim for a sane and sensible set of posts in an increasing pool of unsubstantiated scaremongering and xenophobia. ///
I am sure Jim doesn't agree with you there, as he has already stated some can arrive at a different assessment to others.
So one is not guilty of unsubstantiated scaremongering, or even being xenophobic, it is just that they may hold a different opinion to you.
I'm not saying AOG that border control is an optional extra that should be dispensed with, but there is a frustrating tendency among many countries to view anyone wanting to travel there with some level of suspicion, particularly if such people want to stay. In addition I think you should be separating the problem of monitoring who comes into the country from the question of who and how many you should allow to do so. Illegal immigrants are an issue because they are hidden from the system, and then often end up in low-paid jobs are even criminal activities of one form or another. Immigrants in general can be very beneficial, bringing skills or trading knowledge and wealth between countries, and generally migration shouldn't be feared. The problem with various proposals for border control, though, is that they end up impacting on the people who are the sort you might want in the country while having little effect on illegal immigrants (who just sneak past the system anyway).
As I'm sure I've mentioned before, the spread of immigration in my department and around it is huge. French, German, Italian, Spanish, Swiss, Swedish, American, Mexican... but also Iranian and Israeli; a few from South Africa; someone from Brazil. A very international community, all friends, all working hard, all contributing positively to the nation (incidentally, the Brazilian is going to be kicked out in a year or so, because her visa expires and an unfortunate rule about having to spend a certain number of days per year in the UK overlooks the fact that her job requires her to travel to Switzerland to often to meet that target -- again, this serves to illustrate the point that immigration rules tend to hit the wrong people).
To be sure, a certain amount of border control is reasonable and while it can be a bit of a pain it's usually not to bad, at least for short-term travel. The main thing for me is not though to control borders in the sense of limiting numbers, but to control them in the sense of better monitoring of who is coming to the country. Many people have the first in mind -- I prefer the second, and hope that's reasonable enough.
That's not at all a brief reply, and I was intending to be brief this time. Must stop rambling on. Oh well.
As I'm sure I've mentioned before, the spread of immigration in my department and around it is huge. French, German, Italian, Spanish, Swiss, Swedish, American, Mexican... but also Iranian and Israeli; a few from South Africa; someone from Brazil. A very international community, all friends, all working hard, all contributing positively to the nation (incidentally, the Brazilian is going to be kicked out in a year or so, because her visa expires and an unfortunate rule about having to spend a certain number of days per year in the UK overlooks the fact that her job requires her to travel to Switzerland to often to meet that target -- again, this serves to illustrate the point that immigration rules tend to hit the wrong people).
To be sure, a certain amount of border control is reasonable and while it can be a bit of a pain it's usually not to bad, at least for short-term travel. The main thing for me is not though to control borders in the sense of limiting numbers, but to control them in the sense of better monitoring of who is coming to the country. Many people have the first in mind -- I prefer the second, and hope that's reasonable enough.
That's not at all a brief reply, and I was intending to be brief this time. Must stop rambling on. Oh well.
sunny-dave
/// Which way will I vote? I'm tending towards "Leave", but the more unpleasant and hysterical the propaganda from the leave camp gets the more I'm likely to change to "Stay". ///
And what will you do if (and it has been known) we get more unpleasant and hysterical propaganda from the 'STAY' camp?
/// Which way will I vote? I'm tending towards "Leave", but the more unpleasant and hysterical the propaganda from the leave camp gets the more I'm likely to change to "Stay". ///
And what will you do if (and it has been known) we get more unpleasant and hysterical propaganda from the 'STAY' camp?
"In for the trading links, jobs could go,tax revenue could be lost and we would become a minority with no voice. "
come on sharon, youre having a laugh ...arent you !?..oh heck youre serious !!!
weve been trading with europe for thousands of years...
jobs could..could being the operative word here, jobs in the eu trough mainly , agree and probably some others , no different to a big firm closing, Tata The mines etc....people get retrained new jobs etc...
as to a minority voice..when we are just a mere regional province what voice will we have exactly, im curious to know ?
come on sharon, youre having a laugh ...arent you !?..oh heck youre serious !!!
weve been trading with europe for thousands of years...
jobs could..could being the operative word here, jobs in the eu trough mainly , agree and probably some others , no different to a big firm closing, Tata The mines etc....people get retrained new jobs etc...
as to a minority voice..when we are just a mere regional province what voice will we have exactly, im curious to know ?
at the moment the uk is a puppet dancing to the tunes of the EU..we have little autonomy over own economy while being forced into accepting anyone from the EU that wishes to come here..a drain on our welfare system..housing stock..NHS...etc..we have our own homeless, unemployed and sick to care for..at what expense is the indigenous population being neglected ??? OUT ..OUT OUT !!
Sharon (and others) if you read the business news, HSBC has decided against moving away (and they will have taken Brexit into account).
Toscafund (one of the biggest hedge funds) has today said that the UK 'has nothing to fear' if it exits the bloc. Very, very seriously, we would be better off financially and with more opportunities outside.
There is also the issue of self-determination and freedom. Older ones are used to 'going our own way' and take very unkindly to being told what we can and cannot do.
Please remember that we voted only for an economic union and no way did anyone agree to an United States of Europe, which is, inexorably, happening.
Toscafund (one of the biggest hedge funds) has today said that the UK 'has nothing to fear' if it exits the bloc. Very, very seriously, we would be better off financially and with more opportunities outside.
There is also the issue of self-determination and freedom. Older ones are used to 'going our own way' and take very unkindly to being told what we can and cannot do.
Please remember that we voted only for an economic union and no way did anyone agree to an United States of Europe, which is, inexorably, happening.
