How Can 4 Year Olds Know About A List Of 20+ "genders"...

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pupils-young-four-asked-choose-7792180
More lunacy from teachers.

[retrocop]

Joeluke
Exactly. Just what is the agenda of Brighton and Hove Council. My 4 year grand daughter starts school in September. I am sure my son didn't get such unnecessary interference on the school induction questionnaire.Male/Female should be enough at 4 years of age.

[naomi24]

Jim, Children are bullied for all sorts of reasons, so there really isn’t a case for championing this cause above all others. None of it is acceptable. Incidentally, when I was about eight years old, although I had no idea that trans-gender people existed, I desperately wanted to be a boy (reading The Famous Five did it). I’m very pleased I’m not – but if this sort of thinking had been ‘de rigueur’ then, I wonder how I would have been dealt with and how confused I might have become?

Gromit, the form was sent to parents of children about to start school – so, yes, the children can have been asked – by their parents..

[Gromit]

Unusually, I find myself agreeing with Retrocop.

I can see no good use for the harvesting of information about gender other than male or female of infant children.

[Gromit]

naomi24,
Exactly. What parents ask or don't ask their children is up to them, not us.

But the article reads like the have been 'officially' asked by someone in authority, and they haven't.

[naomi24]

Neither can I.

[naomi24]

Gromit, //But the article reads like the have been 'officially' asked by someone in authority,//

I didn't read it like that. It's clear that the parents were requested to ask the children.

//The letter from Brighton and Hove City Council was sent to parents asking them to “support your child to choose the gender they most identify with”.//

[jim360]

I wouldn't want it to come across that this is the only issue that leads to bullying I care about. Obviously it's all unacceptable. What I'm objecting to is the resigned approach to the problem in general, that seems to encourage people to keep this (and presumably all over differences) a secret. We're better off being open, and yes that risks exposure to bullying.

I wouldn't want gender identities to be imposed on people in either direction. This has happened in some cases, and the results are often, if not always, tragic. I don't see that it hurts to be more open about it, though.

[sp1814]

I wonder why so many have assumed that this form puts the responsibility on 4 year olds to define their gender?

That's not how I read it.

[Gromit]

“Primary school pupils as young as four have been asked to choose the gender “they most identify with” before starting school "

Sounds like the big bad nasty Council are interrogating the kids. It does not read like a conversion between parent and toddler.

[Old_Geezer]

It has to be the four year old. Who else is in a position to state how they feel ? They don't have to actually fill out the form. But they are either asked, or a pure guess (or worse, parental desire) is made on their behalf. It's pointless and dangerous.

[naomi24]

sp, //I wonder why so many have assumed that this form puts the responsibility on 4 year olds to define their gender? //

I don't think people have assumed that. I think they're simply saying that this is a completely unnecessary exercise.

[sp1814]

naomi24

But why? The vast majority of parents will simply answer 'male' or 'female'.

There will be a (very) small number of parents who, by the time their kids reach school age, will have concerns about their child's gender identification.

If those parents need help and support, this seems to be an ideal opportunity to identify them.

And it has zero effect in the rest of us.

I don't expect parents to be rounding up their children, giving them a list of 25 gender references and asking them to choose.

[sp1814]

Also...parents don't actually have to ask their kids.

They would already know.

Because...y'know, they live with them.

Same way that parents of four year olds know whether they are left handed or right handed.

[naomi24]

sp. //But why? The vast majority of parents will simply answer 'male' or 'female'. //

That is why. However, there is no reason that Jim's suggestion shouldn't be adopted. That should suit those parents who, for whatever reason, do not answer 'male' or 'female' without confusing the rest.

[Baldric]

And now,

http://news.sky.com/story/1681865/council-proud-of-asking-kids-to-choose-gender

[Mamyalynne]

so to sum up...

Tick Box M or tick box F or discuss with school - or alternatively run round house wailing and clutching head whilst muttering 'what is the world coming to'.

Understand it now.

[Mamyalynne]

A quick thank you to whoever tidied up the thread title too.

[naomi24]

Mamyalynne, // Understand it now. //

From what you said at 13:34, it appears not.

[Mamyalynne]

I've read all the links and I know what I would do were it my 4 year old, tick a box or discuss any issues I thought school needed to know in advance of their start date.

If things altered later - say 6/8 years or whenever then I'd deal with that then.

I do recall as a young Mum panicking that my daughter couldn't tie shoe laces at 4 which the school form requested she did - reason was she'd never worn lace ups. It got sorted within a week. So I know school starting and your child being accepted does matter.

I simply feel that some type of hysteria creeps in when issues such as this are raised - it will apply to only a few parents but it is good they know the school is there to listen on these matters.


If I haven't grasped it on the level others think I should then maybe it is because I am a simple soul who has successfully brought up two daughters and am part of the bringing up of my four grandchildren.

[naomi24]

Mamyalynne, I’ve no doubt you’ve read all about it, but I don’t think you’ve read anything about people running ‘round house wailing and clutching head whilst muttering 'what is the world coming to'. It isn’t fair to ridicule parents who have genuine concerns about what others may be shoving into their children’s heads.