ChatterBank7 mins ago
Us Schools Are Put On Notice To Respect Transgender Rights
In the US schools have been warned to not discriminate against transgender kids using the loo of their choice:
http://
How would you feel about this approach being taken in the UK, in UK schools?
http://
How would you feel about this approach being taken in the UK, in UK schools?
Answers
well there are apparently 25+ "genders" so we need to do something or start building more kazis!
10:46 Fri 13th May 2016
I feel that letting a 6 year old boy, who thinks he is female ,use a female loo will subject them to endless bullying and misery throughout their school years.
I can't see misery caused by using the correct loo for the correct sex for a two minute 'p'. Are the little treasures that sensitive that it will ruin their day?
I can't see misery caused by using the correct loo for the correct sex for a two minute 'p'. Are the little treasures that sensitive that it will ruin their day?
I suspect that pretty much everything people on AB would want to say about this has been already, eg in the two threads below.
I believe however that effectively the measure is already applied to UK schools. Since the total number of cases is unlikely be that much more than a couple of hundred it hardly comes up anyway.
http://
http://
I believe however that effectively the measure is already applied to UK schools. Since the total number of cases is unlikely be that much more than a couple of hundred it hardly comes up anyway.
http://
http://
Jim are you so completely ignorant of how children behave? Can you imagine the merciless bullying that would ensue when a lad uses the girls loo? OK yes you are correct they should have freedom of expression, fine but day to day practicalities and the reaction of others is a valid consideration, did you ever go to school?
No I'm not. I went to school. I got bullied by some children. Not all of course. But some children are just determined to be bullies, it seems. Or perhaps they aren't and it just happens. No doubt I ended up picking on one or two others in my time.
But to some extent this is the point. The argument you seem to be making is that these children, or children in general, wouldn't be victims of bullying if they decided to hide who they were from their classmates. Well, I may as well turn the question around: have you ever worked with children? Do you think that those who would bully others really wouldn't do so if they didn't have this excuse? Anything, any difference at all, and some people will pick on it. So the question is, what do you do about that? Do you tell would-be victims to hide, run, keep themselves safe by avoiding doing anything that might lead to bullying? Or, how's this for a thought, do you let children be themselves, and take bullying seriously by working to combat it when it happens?
The prevention strategy advocated by you and retro is massively counterproductive because while it might just save such children from bullying (although, as I have argued above, don't bet on that), it doesn't save them from themselves. On this I can speak from experience. If you hide who you are it is self-destructive. So, one has a choice. Destroy yourself, or let someone else have a go. In general, you are going to be more successful at it than they are.
The reason for that is that there are rather a lot more who are accepting of this than there are the sort of idiots who think it's appropriate to bully someone. Once you are open about who you are, you can find support from friends and family -- friends who, in this day and age, seem to stop caring. Oh, the bullies will always be there. But they are counterbalanced by the accepting. And, more importantly, because it is no longer just an internal struggle, you can hear the positive for the first time in your life.
So no. We absolutely shouldn't be passing out the message that the best thing to do is save yourself from bullying by hiding who you are. Hiding it from yourself, and hiding it from the world, is the absolute worst message imaginable.
But to some extent this is the point. The argument you seem to be making is that these children, or children in general, wouldn't be victims of bullying if they decided to hide who they were from their classmates. Well, I may as well turn the question around: have you ever worked with children? Do you think that those who would bully others really wouldn't do so if they didn't have this excuse? Anything, any difference at all, and some people will pick on it. So the question is, what do you do about that? Do you tell would-be victims to hide, run, keep themselves safe by avoiding doing anything that might lead to bullying? Or, how's this for a thought, do you let children be themselves, and take bullying seriously by working to combat it when it happens?
The prevention strategy advocated by you and retro is massively counterproductive because while it might just save such children from bullying (although, as I have argued above, don't bet on that), it doesn't save them from themselves. On this I can speak from experience. If you hide who you are it is self-destructive. So, one has a choice. Destroy yourself, or let someone else have a go. In general, you are going to be more successful at it than they are.
The reason for that is that there are rather a lot more who are accepting of this than there are the sort of idiots who think it's appropriate to bully someone. Once you are open about who you are, you can find support from friends and family -- friends who, in this day and age, seem to stop caring. Oh, the bullies will always be there. But they are counterbalanced by the accepting. And, more importantly, because it is no longer just an internal struggle, you can hear the positive for the first time in your life.
So no. We absolutely shouldn't be passing out the message that the best thing to do is save yourself from bullying by hiding who you are. Hiding it from yourself, and hiding it from the world, is the absolute worst message imaginable.
I think the idea is a bit daft. There are two genders and many ways an individual can feel wrong. Either have separate cubicles and have all available to both genders, or keep things as they are. The last thing a kid who can not accept that the gender they were born as, is right, needs, is something to highlight their disability so they become the butt of teasing by cruel kids.
TTT
You wrote:
Jim are you so completely ignorant of how children behave? Can you imagine the merciless bullying that would ensue when a lad uses the girls loo?
Err...lets be honest here - kids who identify as the opposite gender are going to be bullied quite some time before they take a trip to the toilets.
You wrote:
Jim are you so completely ignorant of how children behave? Can you imagine the merciless bullying that would ensue when a lad uses the girls loo?
Err...lets be honest here - kids who identify as the opposite gender are going to be bullied quite some time before they take a trip to the toilets.
Nothing is bully-proof to the sufficiently talented bully.
It's basically just another form of victim-blaming to imply that the best resolution is to keep it a secret. This has never worked in history, and it will never work now or in the future.
* * * *
At any rate, this matters. It matters because in a sad and perhaps somewhat shallow way this is about whether or not society as a whole accepts that transgenderism is real and worthy of respect. Access to toilet facilities says something about that because, on the one hand, if you let someone who thinks of themselves as a boy use the boys' toilets, and vice versa, you are accepting their identity and their right to be public about it. And, if not, then you aren't. The resolution of the toilet issue, one way or another, is about how public we allow people to be about their transgenderism.
Common sense should still apply. If anyone is found trying to access toilets for a reason other than to use them, then it's wrong and will, and should, remain so. Equally, such people shouldn't be held as representative of the community.
It's basically just another form of victim-blaming to imply that the best resolution is to keep it a secret. This has never worked in history, and it will never work now or in the future.
* * * *
At any rate, this matters. It matters because in a sad and perhaps somewhat shallow way this is about whether or not society as a whole accepts that transgenderism is real and worthy of respect. Access to toilet facilities says something about that because, on the one hand, if you let someone who thinks of themselves as a boy use the boys' toilets, and vice versa, you are accepting their identity and their right to be public about it. And, if not, then you aren't. The resolution of the toilet issue, one way or another, is about how public we allow people to be about their transgenderism.
Common sense should still apply. If anyone is found trying to access toilets for a reason other than to use them, then it's wrong and will, and should, remain so. Equally, such people shouldn't be held as representative of the community.
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