Botham And Brexit

[ChillDoubt]

Pretty difficult to argue with his thoughts, especially the bit about 'would you join the EU in its current state'?:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36413695

[New Judge]

Yes quite so. The more worrying thing is that despite suggesting he would campaign to leave, since deciding he would campaign to remain he has discovered all sorts of dire consequences that might follow a Brexit. There’s all manner of dire warnings: Interest rates up; house prices down; holiday prices up; World War 3, mobile phone charges up, every family £4k down, 3 million jobs in jeopardy, control of terrorism at risk – and these are only the things I can think of without looking them all up.

The question is, did Mr Cameron know of all these potential threats when he threatened he might campaign to leave? If he did it was surely extremely irresponsible to even hint that we might leave. In fact, greater than that, it was foolish in the extreme to call a referendum. He should have set out these threats to the electorate and told them he would not be the Prime Minister to expose the UK to such peril. Or did he not know of these threats, in which case why were they kept from him until he called the vote?

[agchristie]

NJ - yes, it just does not add up does it? Cameron, above anybody, should have been fully appraised of the pros and cons and kept his mouth shut and got his timing right. Anybody with half a brain can see what a mess he has made.

More widely, this whole sorry episode with it's blatant immature and scaremongering further underlines all that is distasteful and off-putting about our political system.

I'm astonished with the baloney that has been uttered around the Brexit debate. How are people to engage and believe anything that some politicians say?

It is often said that to have a healthy political system a strong opposition is paramount. Frankly, I'm so confused who the opposition is these days.

Anybody agree?

[shoota]

Would all of this be happening if Spinelli had been shot by the fascists instead of being interned?

[DTCwordfan]

Bet he has a grand on at 4 to 1 on leaving, the Ins's odds shortening by the day......he may have been a very good cricketer but an economist or politician he is not. Stick to the knitting, Beefy.

[Togo]

ABC? Jackdaw the first two letters, I think, mean Anti British The third could be any of, Cabal, Clique, Coterie, Caucus, Confederacy, Cell, Camp, Camarilla, or any plural word of your choosing beginning with "C".

[Togo]

Ah shoota another person who knows of the Spinelli connection in this conspiracy. I posted a reply last week highlighting the danger of this man's doctrine and killed the thread.

[Jackdaw33]

Thank you, Togo. I can think of a plural word that fits perfectly.

[shoota]

It seems sad that the last vestige of the British Empire will be expunged by the dream of a single Italian Communist.

[shoota]

I find it very strange that nobody is talking about this.

[Togo]

This was what I posted. Please read and digest.

//Altiero Spinelli (1907-1986) was a former Italian Communist who was imprisoned on Ventotene island off the west coast of Italy for 12 years, following which he was interned for six more years. With Ernesto Rossi he wrote the Ventotene Manifesto setting out a plan for a federal Europe controlled by a supra-national government. (Shades of Mein Kampf?). He was a committed relentless advocate of a federal Europe super-state and was able to climb rapidly through Europe's organisational system by covertly driving strategic elements of the EU project to where it is today. He is revered by the Brussels Eurocrats as the founding father of the EU following his introduction of the Spinelli Plan in 1984. The largest of the Eu "Parliament" buildings in Brussels is named in his honour. (The oldest being named after Paul- Henri Spaak.) Any who doubt that the EU is not a dictatorship with any democratic intentions whatsoever should ponder these few words from his Ventotene Manifesto. "The problem which must first be solved is the final abolition of the division of Europe into sovereign nation states. Without this, any progress will be appearance only". Scary or not? Very clear though isn't it. This was the intention from day 1, to eradicate sovereign nations and with them every vestige of national identity, in what they called the project. They being 3 people, Jean Monnet, Arthur Salter and our old friend Paul Henri Spaak (oldest EU parliament building).This aim to abolish nationhood has been regarded as sacrosanct by successive unelected and unaccountable EU commissioners for decades and continues to be so. Now consider this, the latest "leak" from the corridors of power in the EUSSR stresses that the next big thing is to have an army of the EUSSR. Any ex sovereign state will find themselves threatened by a massive European continental army, if they stray from the official message or designated direction. Sound Familiar?? Oh and for good measure Turkey is being shoehorned in. Perhaps in the future, with EUSSR backing and encouragement, the Turks could invade what was once Britain with the full backing of the new unelected Soviet EU regime.//

[shoota]

Perhaps the subject is too big to comprehend....

[agchristie]

I suspect a lot of folk haven't heard of Spinelli!

[Svejk]

Yeah, but think of the 'roaming charges', lads. ;)

[shoota]

// I suspect a lot of folk haven't heard of Spinelli! //

I wonder if that includes Mr Cameron?

[agchristie]

Shoota - I'm seriously beginning to wonder if Cameron knows his own mind!

[ChillDoubt]

Bet he has a grand on at 4 to 1 on leaving, the Ins's odds shortening by the day......he may have been a very good cricketer but an economist or politician he is not.
--------------------------
Seems like he doesn't need to be either (nor professes to be) to realise that the country is cluttered as a result of too much/uncontrolled immigration and that the country he loves is not the one he knew in his 20's. He too has obviously noticed that classroom sizes are burgeoning beyond control and the NHS and other infrastructure cannot cope. He has genuine concerns (like a lot of the populace) and wants them addressed.

[New Judge]

"I suspect a lot of folk haven't heard of Spinelli!

All readers of the Daily Telegraph will have. Last week, coincidentally, a letter explaining the conspiracy was published in the DT. It appeared either on the day or the day before Togo published his explanation. Spookily the two passages were identical almost word for word. :-)

[Togo]

The DM also received a letter with (almost) the same script, and also published it Judge. (^_*)

[Svejk]

Another charmer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_von_Coudenhove-Kalergi

[shoota]

Perhaps Camerons idea is that if we are in we can veto the excesses of the EU.
However the move now is to change to a majority:
http://www.federalist-debate.org/index.php/current/item/267-altiero-spinelli-founder-of-the-movement-for-european-unity