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Postal votes again. They should not be allowed wholesale in any election.
10:54 Fri 01st Jul 2016
These 'ogres' as mikey will have them have got the nous to listen to what the majority want.
If a politician shares the concerns of the electorate and has his /her countries best interests at heart then a rabid left winger call's him an ogre????
Well Corbyn and his cohorts are still not listening are they. ? How many calls from his own MPs does he need to resign.
Mikey. You have a unbalanced meglomaniac sitting vacantly staring in space in charge still of your party. He has killed any opposition and still can't hold a debate on Labour anti-semetism without upsetting his own Jewish MPs.
If you get some childish satisfaction by calling European right wing politicians ogres then you or Corbyn are not listening.
Your 'ogre' Mr Farage achieved the impossible and left those who called him names 'shellshocked'
Arrogance and treating the electorate as ignorant oafs is a loser and you don't win by name calling either.
If a politician shares the concerns of the electorate and has his /her countries best interests at heart then a rabid left winger call's him an ogre????
Well Corbyn and his cohorts are still not listening are they. ? How many calls from his own MPs does he need to resign.
Mikey. You have a unbalanced meglomaniac sitting vacantly staring in space in charge still of your party. He has killed any opposition and still can't hold a debate on Labour anti-semetism without upsetting his own Jewish MPs.
If you get some childish satisfaction by calling European right wing politicians ogres then you or Corbyn are not listening.
Your 'ogre' Mr Farage achieved the impossible and left those who called him names 'shellshocked'
Arrogance and treating the electorate as ignorant oafs is a loser and you don't win by name calling either.
"Postal votes are no less safe than voting in person. " - come on gromit, you aren't that thick are you? so lets say I have got a block vote organized in my community, I can send the all off, no problem. if I have to go to the polling station, they might start to recognize me after 35 times of voting!
// you aren't that thick are you? if I have to go to the polling station, they might start to recognize me after 35 times of voting! //
You wouldn't go 35 times. 35 different people would go. Voting in person is no more secure. You only need to confirm the voters address which is printed on the card. They couldn't make stealing votes at a polling station any easier.
You wouldn't go 35 times. 35 different people would go. Voting in person is no more secure. You only need to confirm the voters address which is printed on the card. They couldn't make stealing votes at a polling station any easier.
But to some sections of society, postal voting is a green light for skullduggery without exactly breaking the law and certain groups are very good at that.
To get every eligible person, the elderly, the illiterate, young people who have no real interest, to fill in a ballot sheet to your directions and deliver them by the boxful, isn't exactly what you might call 'democracy' is it?
To get every eligible person, the elderly, the illiterate, young people who have no real interest, to fill in a ballot sheet to your directions and deliver them by the boxful, isn't exactly what you might call 'democracy' is it?
"You wouldn't go 35 times. 35 different people would go." - and vote how they want! or you mean 35 agents of the block voter? might work but when you get into the thousands, only postal voting allows that level of corruption. Face it postal voting is a failed experiment for the lazy and/or uncommitted. If you cannot get of your plaster to canal personally then you don't care enough to have democracy.
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Postal voting was introduced 100 years ago when the men were unable to vote due to war duties. It is not a recent experiment. Whilst I realise it is open to abuse, voting in person is open to the same amount of abuse, and is not any safer. If someone wants to commit voting fraud, they will do it. A Postal vote, or impersonating someone at the station will be equally as easy.
AOG...on the subject of Geert Wilders, you should have done a bit more research :::
Wilders worked together with the French National Front's Marine Le Pen in a failed attempt to form a parliamentary group in the European Parliament which would also have included Austria's Freedom Party, Italy's Northern League, and Belgium's Flemish Interest. On 18 March 2016, his trial began on the accusation of inciting "discrimination and hatred" against Moroccans living in the Netherlands.
Wilders worked together with the French National Front's Marine Le Pen in a failed attempt to form a parliamentary group in the European Parliament which would also have included Austria's Freedom Party, Italy's Northern League, and Belgium's Flemish Interest. On 18 March 2016, his trial began on the accusation of inciting "discrimination and hatred" against Moroccans living in the Netherlands.
Mikey; Now I wonder what it was that brought Wilders to adopt that stance, could it be something like this?
http://
http://
Mikey, you clearly didn't understand what I said earlier so I'll repeat it. When people support either far right or far left politics there’s a reason. The problem is those reasons aren’t being addressed so if anyone is at fault it is the people who consistently dismiss them.
You are one of those who consistently dismiss them. Think about it.
You are one of those who consistently dismiss them. Think about it.
“Postal votes are no less safe than voting in person.”
Really? You should take a look at the judgement from the Electoral Court which examined the election of Lutfur Rahman as the mayor of Tower Hamlets. You can find a link to the full judgement here:
http://
To save you searching through all of the 200 page document (which I have read in its entirety and which I can commend to anybody who doubts that electoral malpractice is rife in Muslim communities) here’s a few salient points from the judgement:
357 Mr Mukit knows the Weavers Ward well, having lived there for over thirty years. For the 2014 election he canvassed a large number of properties in the ward. He discovered a considerable quantity of addresses where there appeared to be no trace of the voter whose name appeared on the register. Though some of his evidence was admittedly hearsay, it painted a pattern of postal voters having been asked by supporters of Mr Rahman to hand over their postal votes and of voters having handed completed ATV forms to Mr Kabir Ahmed and his brothers. Mr Mukit was astonished to discover several voters who told him that they had voted by post at a time when the postal votes had not yet been sent out. It turned out that these voters had been induced to hand over their completed ATV forms in the belief that they were actually voting. Mr Mukit discovered evidence that at one address, 7 Bacon Street E1 6LF, seven postal votes had been ‘collected by Mr Rahman’s men’ which apparently meant that they had collected the completed PVSs but uncompleted accompanying ballot papers.
358 One of the voters mentioned was an elderly lady, Gulab Bibi. This lady gave evidence in response to a witness summons (properly using an interpreter). Other members of her family also gave evidence. Both she and her family were adamant that she had cast her postal vote herself. A chance question from the Bench, however, revealed that what she had done was to sign a document and hand it over (clearly the PVS) and she denied ever having put a cross on a piece of paper. On the face of it this was a further instance of the first of the two frauds having been perpetrated on this lady (and the electorate).
359 Mr Gilligan told the court:
We also visited another address, 37 Cavell Street, E1, a small block of about twelve flats reserved for elderly Bangladeshi people, where I was told that a number of the residents had had their blank ballot papers taken from them against their will by supporters of Lutfur Rahman and Tower Hamlets First. Through the translator, one resident told me that this had indeed occurred. She said: “A woman came and said, we are here from Lutfur Rahman’s party. Many people of your age have voted for him already, so I’m here to take your vote. They came to me and took my signature and then took the blank ballot paper from me. I normally go to the polling station. I told them I was used to doing it myself and didn’t understand why it was different this year. I am a long-term Labour supporter and would never have supported Lutfur Rahman…”
377 With regard to the unlawful completion and use of voting documents by third parties, the court was satisfied that both corrupt and illegal practices had taken place and had been committed by persons who were, in electoral law, the agents of Mr Rahman.
These paragraphs by no means demonstrate the extent of postal voting fraud extant in the Tower Hamlets election. You can read the entire judgement for yourself if you want to. But there was no doubt that widespread fraud with postal votes took place. This type of abuse seems prevalent in Muslim areas.
There is no place for unjustified postal voting in the UK. It should be reserved for those genuinely unable to get to the polling station. It is clearly far easier to harvest a barrow load of postal voting forms than it is to arrange for the same number of bogus voters to present themselves to vote in person.
Really? You should take a look at the judgement from the Electoral Court which examined the election of Lutfur Rahman as the mayor of Tower Hamlets. You can find a link to the full judgement here:
http://
To save you searching through all of the 200 page document (which I have read in its entirety and which I can commend to anybody who doubts that electoral malpractice is rife in Muslim communities) here’s a few salient points from the judgement:
357 Mr Mukit knows the Weavers Ward well, having lived there for over thirty years. For the 2014 election he canvassed a large number of properties in the ward. He discovered a considerable quantity of addresses where there appeared to be no trace of the voter whose name appeared on the register. Though some of his evidence was admittedly hearsay, it painted a pattern of postal voters having been asked by supporters of Mr Rahman to hand over their postal votes and of voters having handed completed ATV forms to Mr Kabir Ahmed and his brothers. Mr Mukit was astonished to discover several voters who told him that they had voted by post at a time when the postal votes had not yet been sent out. It turned out that these voters had been induced to hand over their completed ATV forms in the belief that they were actually voting. Mr Mukit discovered evidence that at one address, 7 Bacon Street E1 6LF, seven postal votes had been ‘collected by Mr Rahman’s men’ which apparently meant that they had collected the completed PVSs but uncompleted accompanying ballot papers.
358 One of the voters mentioned was an elderly lady, Gulab Bibi. This lady gave evidence in response to a witness summons (properly using an interpreter). Other members of her family also gave evidence. Both she and her family were adamant that she had cast her postal vote herself. A chance question from the Bench, however, revealed that what she had done was to sign a document and hand it over (clearly the PVS) and she denied ever having put a cross on a piece of paper. On the face of it this was a further instance of the first of the two frauds having been perpetrated on this lady (and the electorate).
359 Mr Gilligan told the court:
We also visited another address, 37 Cavell Street, E1, a small block of about twelve flats reserved for elderly Bangladeshi people, where I was told that a number of the residents had had their blank ballot papers taken from them against their will by supporters of Lutfur Rahman and Tower Hamlets First. Through the translator, one resident told me that this had indeed occurred. She said: “A woman came and said, we are here from Lutfur Rahman’s party. Many people of your age have voted for him already, so I’m here to take your vote. They came to me and took my signature and then took the blank ballot paper from me. I normally go to the polling station. I told them I was used to doing it myself and didn’t understand why it was different this year. I am a long-term Labour supporter and would never have supported Lutfur Rahman…”
377 With regard to the unlawful completion and use of voting documents by third parties, the court was satisfied that both corrupt and illegal practices had taken place and had been committed by persons who were, in electoral law, the agents of Mr Rahman.
These paragraphs by no means demonstrate the extent of postal voting fraud extant in the Tower Hamlets election. You can read the entire judgement for yourself if you want to. But there was no doubt that widespread fraud with postal votes took place. This type of abuse seems prevalent in Muslim areas.
There is no place for unjustified postal voting in the UK. It should be reserved for those genuinely unable to get to the polling station. It is clearly far easier to harvest a barrow load of postal voting forms than it is to arrange for the same number of bogus voters to present themselves to vote in person.
I once had a postal vote - I had moved house just before the election and it was perfectly justified. There are clear cases (such as this) when postal votes should be accepted.
What is not justifiable is (I can attest that I was told this more than once by people with no axe to grind, indeed they let it out in normal conversation) is for non-English-speaking people to have forms filled in for them by 'Elders' in their Community and all they had to do was sign. (The 'Elders' applied for the forms in the first place. This is a strictly true account as I understand it and as I was told first-hand.) Completed forms were then collected and posted. I had my information from Keighley residents.
Postal votes need to be limited and strictly controlled I.M.O. If you are in Hospital, away on holiday or other circumstances - you should be able to prove it before your vote is allocated.
We shall see what the re-run brings. Hopefully our idiot politicians will have pulled themselves together and begun to sort things out after Brexit by then.
What is not justifiable is (I can attest that I was told this more than once by people with no axe to grind, indeed they let it out in normal conversation) is for non-English-speaking people to have forms filled in for them by 'Elders' in their Community and all they had to do was sign. (The 'Elders' applied for the forms in the first place. This is a strictly true account as I understand it and as I was told first-hand.) Completed forms were then collected and posted. I had my information from Keighley residents.
Postal votes need to be limited and strictly controlled I.M.O. If you are in Hospital, away on holiday or other circumstances - you should be able to prove it before your vote is allocated.
We shall see what the re-run brings. Hopefully our idiot politicians will have pulled themselves together and begun to sort things out after Brexit by then.
I think N.J. gives a pretty comprehensive argument for why the postal vote requires scrutiny and I believe some form of government body should look into it. The whole turgid mess was encapsulated in just one report from a pollster prior to the Oldham by-election when she asked a Muslim lady in the street how she was intending to vote and she answered, "I don't know, I haven't been told yet".
Muslims love democracy and want to use it to the full to achieve their ends, before closing the door behind them.
Recip Erdogan has likened democracy to a bus, "you use it get to your destination and then you get off".
Muslims love democracy and want to use it to the full to achieve their ends, before closing the door behind them.
Recip Erdogan has likened democracy to a bus, "you use it get to your destination and then you get off".
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