3-0 - We're On A Roll, What Next?

[ToraToraTora]

Has Trump Made the impossible possible?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37961391
Can Marine La Pen win in France?

[naomi24]

SP, //Perhaps a resurgence in support for the KKK? //

Please... not even in jest. No one has suggested that except you - and it's insulting.

[Togo]

//Can Marine La Pen win in France?//

As long as Mikey continues to vociferously oppose her...... She is a shoe in.

[sp1814]

divebuddy

True. Sometimes I get confused as to whether I'm watching a bunch of hillbilly bigots or the latest Harry Potter movie.

But leaving that aside, I think that TTT might be on to something here. A wave of populist right wing successes is good for democracy. All people should have a voice and this is simply a product of a reaction to liberal ideology over the past decade.

But I doubt it will be a lasting sea change in public opinion. Politics is like that...you swing from the liberalism of the 70s, to the capitalistic fervour of the 80s, back to liberalism in the 90s, and then the chase for the middle ground in the early 00s.

This is the latest swing of the pendulum.

Unless the Tories, Trump and Le Pen can bring lasting peace and prosperity, and actually follow through, the inevitable will happen.

[sp1814]

naomi24

As both know - some people are addicted to being insulted. It's their raison d'être (cf. every Twitter meltdown).

I'm sure that no-one here takes offence. And if they do...well...

[ToraToraTora]

Instead of reverting to type SP look at why this is happening.

[naomi24]

SP, if you're sure no one takes offence I imagine you feel at liberty to carry on insulting them.

[ToraToraTora]

Naomi, It's the standard kneejerk of the left when they cannot comprehend why people have not voted the "correct" way or not subscribed to the "correct" view.

[naomi24]

TTT, indeed ... but that sort of ignorance is truly sickening.

[douglas9401]

The world weary among us might say our inept political masters bring the extreme right upon us with their cavalier attitude to the mass movement of people hell-bent on squeezing what they can from gullible countries.
We reap what they sow.

[sp1814]

TTT

As I've already said - a reaction against liberal policies, the elite, the
establishment and all that entails.

However, should we really lump Trump, Le Pen and Brexit together as if they have some common constituency? Brexit was about getting sovereign power back from Brussels (mainly), Le Pen's root is based on immigration, and Trump campaigned...well, to be honest, I'm still not sure.

Thing is - the liberals/metropolitan elite/establishment (whatever label is currently being used) aren't going to disappear. There will be a counteraction.

It happened in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s.

It's happening now, and will keep on happening, because the western world is fairly evenly divided between liberals and conservatives.

This was proved in this country - there wasn't a landslide in favour or against Brexit.

There wasn't a landslide for Trump.

In fact - there hasn't been a landslide in any major election for anything for ages (that I can recall).

It's pendulum politics.

[sp1814]

TTT

You wrote:

[i]Naomi, It's the standard kneejerk of the left when they cannot comprehend why people have not voted the "correct" way or not subscribed to the "correct" view[i]

I thought I'd got it when I wrote:

"All people should have a voice and this is simply a product of a reaction to liberal ideology over the past decade."

Oh well...never mind.

[agchristie]

3-0, and the next goal could be a pen.

[gulliver1]

It appears that TGT now has a female Deputy leader.

[sp1814]

gulliver1

What's TGT???

By the way - doesn't everyone agree that suddenly politics is now very interesting again?

Lord only knows what the next four years are going to bring - but the one thing that's guaranteed, it's not going to be dull.

[jim360]

As sp says, each time it was fairly close. I guess le Pen therefore could have a chance, as she only needs to just creep over 50% support. But there's anyway a lot more going on in each case. It's obvious, for example, that partisanship had as much to do with Trump's win as anything else -- how else can you explain the exact matches between state votes for president and senate?

So on that basis this is only temporary, and in a few years' time the "liberal left" or whatever, will have a chance to claw back. Still, it's going to take some doing, and no doubt there's plenty to correct about the approach to politics that the losers this time had practised.

[ToraToraTora]

SP: "This was proved in this country - there wasn't a landslide in favour or against Brexit. There wasn't a landslide for Trump. " - both those outcomes were however dismissed as fantasy land by many, especially on here, for Hilary not to win is not a landslide for Trump but the fact he won was predicted as impossible by many of the Liberal persuasion, so it is a landslide in reverse if you like. Mikey was chirping for weeks then came Nov 9th, oh dear. Ditto brexit. Do not write off Marine L. Us in the BOTD have had enough liberal c0bblers.

[sp1814]

jim360

Yes - that's how I see it. If some had told me in 1985 (at the height of Thatcher/Reagan) that in a few short years, we would see ultra liberals like Clinton/Blair, I wouldn't have believed it.

My point is that politics is fluid. There are no permanent sea changes. In fact, the very essence of sea change is that it's the opposite of permanent.

The great thing about where we are right now, is that the mantle has been handed (or is in the process of being handed) to 'the right'. They need to show us that they can do better...to safeguard us (economically, militarily, physically) and actually satisfy those who have voted for them.

It's a huge challenge. All it would take is another 2008, and people's attention will be diverted (the last big crash).