3-0 - We're On A Roll, What Next?

[ToraToraTora]

Has Trump Made the impossible possible?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37961391
Can Marine La Pen win in France?

[sp1814]

TTT

Nope...read your last post through twice - haven't a clue.

[Togo]

//the establishment and all that entails.//

Stick an "r" between "ta" in the last word and bingo.

[ToraToraTora]

what is unclear SP?

[sp1814]

The landslide in reverse.

Is that...a volcano?

I don't know what BOTD is either.

I know a popular acronym - MOTD, which is 'Match Of The Day', but BOTD?

Stumped.

Logic tells me that it must be *** Of The Day, but this thread isn't about Crufts, so I'm a bit lost.

But as a general point, whatever mikey4444 said isn't what I'm arguing. The point I was making is that Brexit was a close call, which indicates that the country is divided down the middle, and Trump didn't slaughter Clinton in the US Presidential elections. We are certainly seeing a shift (a considerable shift) but I don't see this as this is nothing like the Reagan/Thatcher/Blair swings.

What Le Pen, May, Farage and Trump need to do, is get far more of the centralist voters onside. It's unlikely that collectively, they will make inroads with the far left and the 'metropolitan elite, liberal...blah blah', but if they can secure support amongst the floating voters, they could be in for the long haul.

[naomi24]

Jim/SP, you’re both dismissing or ignoring or overlooking what is being said here. It matters not that Brexit vote won by a slim majority or that Trump and Hillary were pretty much neck and neck in the race – the point is that people have voted in a way that was entirely unforeseen - dare I say unthinkable? – yes, I think so - by what are termed ‘the liberal elite’ – and by the liberal not-so-elite. Despite all indications and all warnings, they simply closed their eyes and ears, assured in their own self-righteous arrogance that it would never happen because their ‘right-on’ opinions were, without doubt, right. Well it is happening because over the past several years the goalposts have shifted and life in the west has changed. And still you’re confident that the tide will turn again – as it always does. I’d hazard a guess - not this time. Just watch.

[ToraToraTora]

come on you ain't that thick. if I beat Usain Bolt in a sprint by 1000th of a second that would not be a Landslide for me but it would be the opposite of one for him. Hillary was nailed on to win, so was remain, that's what I'm saying. So no landslide but definitely the opposite for the losers who were expected to win easily. As a Hilary supporter I would have thought you'd be familiar with Basket Of The Deplorable.

[sp1814]

naomi24

So..from now on, we will have right leaning governments throughout the western world?

It's certainly a possibility.

But I challenge this point:

[i]Despite all indications and all warnings, they simply closed their eyes and ears, assured in their own self-righteous arrogance that it would never happen because their ‘right-on’ opinions were, without doubt, right.[i]

Could you not argue that anyone with strongly held beliefs both on the right and the left dismiss those whose views don't dovetail with there own?

Did Thatcher and Reagan countenance the views of the Left?

Did Blair and Brown try to court the Right?

Are Trump and Le Pen...what's the opposite of 'arrogant'?

[sp1814]

TTT

It's still not a landslide.

And...BOTD?

[sp1814]

TTT

I do, however, understand what you mean. The results were both surprises. I think we should take opinion polls with giant spoons of salt from now on.

Ladles, perhaps.

[ToraToraTora]

sp: BOTD: last sentence, 19:23

[sp1814]

TTT

Oh come on.

BOTD was really difficult.

Daily Telegraph crossword difficult.

[naomi24]

SP. //Did Thatcher and Reagan countenance the views of the Left? Did Blair and Brown try to court the Right? //

As I said, the goalposts have shifted. That's what you're failing to recognise.

[sp1814]

I don't think that the goalposts have ever been static.

Every decade has seen a seismic shift in attitudes, economic indicators, war and social unrest.

The goal posts shifted massively when America was at war with itself during the late 60s (civil rights, Vietnam), the goalposts shifted massively in the UK during the 80s (the dismantling of the industrial north, the vanquishing of the unions), the goalposts shifted beyond sight during the 90s/00s (the rise of Islamic terrorism).

The goalposts have been moved up and down the field so many times that the goalkeepers have given up and gone home, leaving the linesman to..to...

No, sorry - rubbish at football analogies.

[youngmafbog]

So long as the Tories dont follow through SP. What an awful mess that would be :-)

Seriously though, TTT I think Marine will make a big impact. Will she win i hope so but it wont be easy. Are the French ready to fight yet or capitulate again?

[agchristie]

Sp - No, sorry - rubbish at football analogies.

Er, the full time whistle went ages ago. Why are you still on the pitch?!

[naomi24]

ag, Maybe he's forgotten the clocks have changed. He's definitely fumbling around in the dark.

[agchristie]

^ or playing for extra time!

[naomi24]

:o)

[jim360]

Well, put it this way Naomi -- it's a brave person who thinks that politics is now settled. Perhaps it will take longer than expected for "the right" to lose control. But they will, no doubt about that. History is cyclical. Politics is cyclical.

The closeness of the vote does matter. In particular, again, let me mention that all indications are that Clinton -- the unpopular candidate, unable to overcome a wave of support for the outsider -- won in the popular vote. That's not an insignificant fact, even if the current US system meant that it wasn't enough to secure the presidency. And Leave only edged it. In both cases, that means that there are enough of the losing side around to keep things tight, and close, and it really won't take much to swing things back again.

And, again, let me stress that if you think everyone who voted for Trump supported him, you are certainly mistaken. I dare say we'll never know exactly how many people supported him, but rather a lot of people simply voted for the Republican candidate. That doesn't play into your theory that the tide has swung irrevocably to one side or another. It just means that people are even more to one side or the other than they used to be.

Support for the "anti-establishment" position was certainly underestimated. It's just as bad a mistake to overestimate support for it.

[cassa333]

NIGEL FERAGE NOT NATIONAL FRONT.