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Aleppo Battle: Un Says 82 Civilians Shot On The Spot
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"Syrian pro-government forces have been entering homes in eastern Aleppo and killing those inside, including women and children, the UN says"
"Syrian pro-government forces have been entering homes in eastern Aleppo and killing those inside, including women and children, the UN says"
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This is almost not news, mikey, sadly. It is right that you raise it of course. Was it not interesting to see that IS had recaptured Palmyra, in the midst of all this. Russians and Syrians alike fled when faced with actual fighters rather than defenceless women and children. One wonders how, if left to their own devices, the Syrian army would cope with trying to...
13:43 Tue 13th Dec 2016
Mush....No one seriously thinks that horrible things are going in in Aleppo.
Our House of Commons, for instance, don't seem to have any doubts. They have been vigorously debating the subject this afternoon, and I saw no sign of disbelief.
Do you or do you not believe that atrocities are going on in Syria, and have been for years ?
Our House of Commons, for instance, don't seem to have any doubts. They have been vigorously debating the subject this afternoon, and I saw no sign of disbelief.
Do you or do you not believe that atrocities are going on in Syria, and have been for years ?
"Do you or do you not believe that atrocities are going on in Syria, and have been for years ?"
I certainly do not doubt it Mikey. But the real question is, what do you want me (or anybody else in the UK, up to and including the Prime Minister) to do about it? It's easy to say "this is disgusting, this shouldn't happen". And I'd quite agree. But what do you want done? Are you seriously suggesting that our troops should risk their lives in the impossible task of trying to bring peace to the area (when, even if they succeeded, the carnage would simply be displaced to the next place where Muslims cannot get on with anybody else, or indeed with each other). And while our chaps are busy having their backsides shot at and their legs blown off, Syrian draft dodgers are living in council flats across Europe.
What’s happening in Syria (and elsewhere) is tragic. But there’s nothing the UK can do about it.
I certainly do not doubt it Mikey. But the real question is, what do you want me (or anybody else in the UK, up to and including the Prime Minister) to do about it? It's easy to say "this is disgusting, this shouldn't happen". And I'd quite agree. But what do you want done? Are you seriously suggesting that our troops should risk their lives in the impossible task of trying to bring peace to the area (when, even if they succeeded, the carnage would simply be displaced to the next place where Muslims cannot get on with anybody else, or indeed with each other). And while our chaps are busy having their backsides shot at and their legs blown off, Syrian draft dodgers are living in council flats across Europe.
What’s happening in Syria (and elsewhere) is tragic. But there’s nothing the UK can do about it.
and furthermore to NJ. The main purpose of the West's (very late ) proposed intervention being cried for by the liberal left and the neocons is to try to enact a regime change - (don't they ever learn?) but no one has an idea just as before in Iraq and Libya what that change might be. If it wasn't for Russia the black flag of ISIS might now be flying over Damascus and sharia would be the law of the land.
You're right to an extent New Judge that there is nothing dramatic we can do in the face of people bent on 'victory' at any cost. But we van continue to do the boring stuff : we could take Russia to the cleaners economically if we wanted to, but the way the next US administration is shaping up it looks as though we may go the other way. There WILL have to be a negotiated solution eventually though
Of course I do, Ikky. But the official Syrian Arab Armed Forces depends heavily on conscription, and dodging that requirement has become rife. Not my own work, but a brief description:
The military is a conscripted force; males serve in the military upon reaching the age of 18, but there are many women in the armed forces. Since the Syrian Civil War, the enlisted members of the Syrian military have dropped by over half from a pre-civil war figure of 325,000 to 150,000 soldiers in the army in December 2014, due to casualties, desertions and draft dodging, reaching between 178,000 and 220,000 soldiers in the army,in addition to 80,000 to 100,000 irregular forces.
There is little doubt that a good number of these dodgers have chosen to travel to Europe. I'm not really all that fussed about conditions in Syria and I don't doubt that many of those fleeing do not view their enforced enlistment in quite the same was as British teenagers did when faced with two years in Catterick Camp peeling potatoes. But my description still holds.
The military is a conscripted force; males serve in the military upon reaching the age of 18, but there are many women in the armed forces. Since the Syrian Civil War, the enlisted members of the Syrian military have dropped by over half from a pre-civil war figure of 325,000 to 150,000 soldiers in the army in December 2014, due to casualties, desertions and draft dodging, reaching between 178,000 and 220,000 soldiers in the army,in addition to 80,000 to 100,000 irregular forces.
There is little doubt that a good number of these dodgers have chosen to travel to Europe. I'm not really all that fussed about conditions in Syria and I don't doubt that many of those fleeing do not view their enforced enlistment in quite the same was as British teenagers did when faced with two years in Catterick Camp peeling potatoes. But my description still holds.
'Draft dodging' often says more about the draft than the 'dodgers'
Look at Eritrea for example: the reason there are so many Eritrean regmfugees is to escape what can effectively become a life time of slave Labour.
I'm not going to condemn those people any more than I am, rather complacently, the Syrians
Look at Eritrea for example: the reason there are so many Eritrean regmfugees is to escape what can effectively become a life time of slave Labour.
I'm not going to condemn those people any more than I am, rather complacently, the Syrians
Oh how they cheered in 2013 when Ed Milliband organised the veto on action by British forces or intervention in Syria despite Assad having used chemical weapons on civilians. The resulting power vacuum allowed the Russians to form an unholy alliance with Asssad, and caused tens of thousands of deaths and the displacement and suffering of millions. Not to say a refugee crisis which is fuelling terrorism and extremism in the west whilst destabilising Jordan and Lebanon and allowing Iran to swagger with confidence at the impotence of the western governments.
I've only just read ichy's post which has been given best answer !!!
"Russians and Syrians alike fled when faced with actual fighters rather than defenceless women and children."
The reason Palmyra has been retaken is because very few troops were left in control, the majority having been moved to join the battle for Aleppo. This may have been a strategic risk, but the government doesn't have unlimited forces. However, they will now have to be cleared out again and hopefully without more damage being done to antiquities.
"Russians and Syrians alike fled when faced with actual fighters rather than defenceless women and children."
The reason Palmyra has been retaken is because very few troops were left in control, the majority having been moved to join the battle for Aleppo. This may have been a strategic risk, but the government doesn't have unlimited forces. However, they will now have to be cleared out again and hopefully without more damage being done to antiquities.
"Oh how they cheered in 2013 when Ed Milliband organised the veto on action by British forces or intervention in Syria despite Assad having used chemical weapons on civilians. The resulting power vacuum allowed the Russians to form an unholy alliance with Asssad, and caused tens of thousands of deaths and the displacement and suffering of millions. Not to say a refugee crisis which is fuelling terrorism and extremism in the west whilst destabilising Jordan and Lebanon and allowing Iran to swagger with confidence at the impotence of the western governments. "
This is what many MPs were saying yesterday, but is not entirely accurate. Russia was always allied with Assad. There was no power vacuum as such.
What happened with chemical weapons was a bit of a side-show really. It actually benefitted Assad, because, if you remember, Russia made a great show of pitching up in Damascus as it they were from the planet Zog, and apparently doing a deal with him to give up his chemical weapons, patting themselves on the back for their "peace making efforts"
But all the time Assad was pretending to dismantle his chemical weaponry, he was merely intensifying his genocide by more "conventional" means.
Where the west CAN be blamed is for not doing enough of what some poeple seem to think is so wrong: ie providing more military support to the FSA (yes, "child" soldiers and all) back when they were the main opposition on the ground, and before the rebel factions splintered and became more extreme (and desperate). But it was difficult, as Russian (and China) made sure there could never be any sort of UN backing for any opposition to their ally
This is what many MPs were saying yesterday, but is not entirely accurate. Russia was always allied with Assad. There was no power vacuum as such.
What happened with chemical weapons was a bit of a side-show really. It actually benefitted Assad, because, if you remember, Russia made a great show of pitching up in Damascus as it they were from the planet Zog, and apparently doing a deal with him to give up his chemical weapons, patting themselves on the back for their "peace making efforts"
But all the time Assad was pretending to dismantle his chemical weaponry, he was merely intensifying his genocide by more "conventional" means.
Where the west CAN be blamed is for not doing enough of what some poeple seem to think is so wrong: ie providing more military support to the FSA (yes, "child" soldiers and all) back when they were the main opposition on the ground, and before the rebel factions splintered and became more extreme (and desperate). But it was difficult, as Russian (and China) made sure there could never be any sort of UN backing for any opposition to their ally
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