In Our Multi Racial Country Should We No Longer Allow "all White Juries"?

[anotheoldgit]

/// Ahmed, known as Daddy, previously took his case to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) claiming that his all-white jury was
biased ///

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4207256/Rochdale-grooming-gang-deported-appeals-rejected.html

[trt]

When in Rome!!

[anotheoldgit]

Yes trt same story different concerns.

[vortex]

Selecting juries is a purely random process.

Colour does not and should not matter.

Decisions are taken on evidence presented to them.

[Gromit]

A clutching at straws defence.

I am sure juries are keenly monitored so that they do reflect society, and ethnicity, colour, gender are properly represented.

As mentioned, the selection process is random, so all white juries will happen sometimes, and nothing wrong with that. If it was forbidden to have an all white jury, then that would actually be introducing a bias that should not be there.

[naomi24]

Gromit, //A clutching at straws defence. //

Indeed. He has no defence!

[vortex]

Yes, only Wurzel Gummidge is allowed a 'clutching of straws' defence...

[Hypognosis]

@aog

From figures on Wikipedia, I find Rochdale is about 87.6% white.

I don't know how jury catchment areas are worked out, hopefully someone can fill us in on that.

Mathematically, 12 random selections, with a probability of 15% (limitations of my stats tables) of success for a required characteristic (non-white) at each attempt gives the following odds
1 85.78%
2 55.65%
3 26.42%
4 9.22%
5 2.39%
6 0.46%
7 0.07%

So the jury begins to fail to reflect the ethnic mix *of Rochdale* at greater than 2 non-white members and there is a vanishingly small chance of enough to form a majority to "help out" a non-white defendant.

How does he imagine a white defendant, on these charges, would fare, in Pakistan?

[douglas9401]

I think the process is random as far as being called for jury duty, actually being empanelled is a different thing.

[cashier]

WhenI was selcted for jury service,there were 15 of us turned up most days and 4 of the people were non-white.

[anotheoldgit]

Hypognosis

/// How does he imagine a white defendant, on these charges, would fare, in Pakistan? ///

Exactly the same question that I was about to ask.

[vortex]

Do you think there will ever come a day in this crazy world where, in the interests of diversity, a white man is suspected of a crime and appears on an identity parade, that the powers that be will insist on at least 2 black persons also standing in the line?

[anotheoldgit]

cashier

/// When I was selected for jury service,there were 15 of us turned up most days and 4 of the people were non-white. ///

Perhaps random selection has given way to the introduction of diversity?

[naomi24]

vortex, that would never surprise me. A bit like security staff at airports looking for potential Islamic terrorists but being seen to frisk little old white ladies with cherries on their hats in an effort to appear non-biased.

[Bazile]

Well even a little white, Miss Daisy , could be a terrorist

[anotheoldgit]

vortex

Yes we constantly hear demands for diversity in films, TV shows, music awards, football managers etc.

But strangely we never hear (in the name of diversity) demands for more white soccer players in the game.

[anotheoldgit]

naomi24
And don't even mention 'stop and search'.

[vortex]

Naomi - that made me laugh out loud, thank you!

AOG - diversity has a parochial definition tonsome.

[Hypognosis]

@aog

That closing question morphed as I was writing. Originally, I was going to ask, if their imagination would stretch to a white defendant, on trial in Pakistan, finding a white *juror* (let alone 2).

The idea being to ram home the general assymetry of the global migration situation.

(If anyone can name a town in Pakistan with 15,000+ white residents, then I shall stand corrected).

[mikey4444]

I wonder what everybody would say if an all-black Jury was chosen, or an all-Asian one instead ?

I am fairly certain that an awful lot of people would be jumping up and down in protest.

[Hypognosis]

@mikey

I stopped listing probabilities at 7 non-white members because that was already 0.07%. For 8 it's 0.01% and the rest of the column is just zeros.

So people would be justifiably jumping up and down about it. It's not a debating point where you can flip the colours and pose the same question.