Is It Time For Another Referendum?

[Togo]

About...............................abolishing the House of Lords?

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/national/governments-brexit-bill-defeated-in-lords/ar-AAnGvm1?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=spartanntp

[Gromit]

The House of Lords does need reforming/abolishing/replacing.

Good to see you finally coming around to left wing ideas and thinking.

Well done.

[youngmafbog]

Since when has reformation of the Lords been a left wing thought? And if it is how come so many real Lefty labour people (Prescott Charabati sing to mind) burn a hole in the carpet rushing for their seat?

Signed but it wont do any good. The Lords have too many friends in high places and the old boys network will kick in.

[ToraToraTora]

the problem is YMB that gromit and the remainiacs would normally be agreeing with us but the Lords are throwing them a lifeline on brexit, trickey one!

[ichkeria]

The uk's hand is already weak due to the asinine decision to threaten to walk away with no deal. Billions is currently being wasted making the U.K. governable in the event of that happening. Such a situation nonetheless leaves the uks position parlous indeed
The Lords needs reforming: a lot smaller, but the fact that it is unelected already means it has less power - having a second fully elected chamber risks undermining the Commons. The Lords frequently send bills back for amendment and this is no different
A petition eh? Well there's a surprise

[dannyk13]

Signed,now over 56,000

[ichkeria]

We shouldn't be playing poker with people's lives and livelihoods here. I thought even UKIP supported this idea. It makes it all the more uncertain for British people abroad, too

[anotheoldgit]

The great unwashed have took to the streets for much less.

[ichkeria]

And it raises another interesting issue: plainly a lot of MPs voted for Article 50 out of fear of their constituents. While undoubtedly it is good for elected representatives not to be oblivious to the views of constituents, and to be bound by them to an extent, if you genuinely think something is seriously wrong, you should not be swayed by that.
And their Lordships of course, do not have that worry, as no doubt they also did not when they backed the poll tax all those years ago ...

[youngmafbog]

//We shouldn't be playing poker with people's lives and livelihoods here//

Well it is your Lords and Masters in Bruxelles who refused to negotiate it. If they agree up front that it is reciprocal then there is no issue. But they wont will they?

[Kromovaracun]

Nigel Farage has said on LBC that while he begrudges the Lords' existence, he thinks their decision is the right one. Specifically, he lambasted the government for failing to guarantee the rights of EU citizens.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nigel-farage/theresa-may-moral-high-ground-over-lords-defeat/

Not often I agree with Farage, but this is one of those times.

I do find it funny that the rallying cry of Brexiteers was "we want our country back" but they've proved remarkably cavalier about disbanding the United Kingdom entirely (something I seem to remember the EU being accused of), undermining British courts, disbanding our political institutions, etc.

[ichkeria]

Well said kromo (and Nigel, for once!).
What people rushing to sign this petition should reflect on is this:
Currently, the government can just turn round to the Lords and say "stuff your vote: we are going to carry on regardless". And because the Lords are not elected, fundamentally, and regardless of what the rules say, no one is going ultimately to come back with any great moral force.
However, if an ELECTED chamber threw a spanner in the works, well then there would be more of a problem: and Brexit might be in (even more) trouble.

[Khandro]

//However, if an ELECTED chamber threw a spanner in the works, well then there would be more of a problem://
I fail to see the reasoning in this, it would remain with a second chamber status, whether the members are elected or nominated wouldn't matter

[naomi24]

The government’s proposal is not unreasonable – it’s eminently sensible. Pity the Lords aren’t equally as sensible. High time they got their marching orders.

[anotheoldgit]

Fear not, "The Lady's not for turning".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4271538/Ministers-brace-Brexit-Bill-DEFEAT-House-Lords.html

[ToraToraTora]

ich/Kromo etc - I think everyone agrees to the protection of rights for EU citizens currently living here, including the government. The point is that if the EU know that we are forced by our own statute to do so they can force all sorts of other things on us for reciprocating. The Lords are simply trying to send us out for a fight with one arm tied behind our backs. That's the point not the actual content.

[Gromit]

Margaret Thatcher made 18 new Peers (in 11 years)
Blair made 37 (in 10 years)

Cameron made 236 new Peers (in 6 years).

Despite packing the Lords full of Tories, they still can't force bad legislation through.

[naomi24]

Gromit, why is attempting to protect UK citizens abroad 'bad'?

[Togo]

//Cameron made 236 new Peers (in 6 years).//

I don't suppose they voted in such a way that showed any allegiance or gratitude to Cameron though.

[ToraToraTora]

So why is triggering A50 to implement the results of the referendum "bad legislation" Gromit?

[hereIam]

Also signed.