White Elderly Posh Judge, Now Accused Of Not Understanding Humans.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4663994/Grenfell-inquiry-judge-replaced-says-Labour-MP.html

What does this woman and others want, the inquiry judge to be selected from a resident of those flats?

[mikey4444]

Jim....you have encapsulated my thoughts on this affair very well. The residents have indeed been ignored in the past. Add to that, the complete inability of the Council and its Leadership, to show any sense of ability in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy, who can blame them if they are now feeling frustrated.

But I have already said that Coad and Lammy are wrong in their criticism of the Judge appointed to lead the Enquiry , especially Lammy, in his daft racial comments.

[mikey4444]

Eddie....as I understand it, the Inquests cannot go ahead, while the Police are still investigating any criminal activities. If that is true, then any Inquests may be some time off.

This isn't going to be sorted out in a few days or even months.

[naomi24]

There should be two separate inquiries – one into the causes of the fire – the other into the residents’ long-standing complaints. The survivors who say they are //prepared to abandon the process unless the parameters were broadened to consider systemic issues // are not helping their own cause. If they abandon the process, they'll never know the truth.

[-Talbot-]

Despite you spouting that you will call out racism where and when you see it ... you don't do you, mikey.

Was Lammy's comment racist?

[mikey4444]

Lammy's comments was stupid and uncalled for....I have said all I can on this subject.

[naomi24]

Talbot, I'm not sure if Mikey has forgotten what he said at 08.05, or whether he is now back-pedalling..... but apparently Lammy's comments were racist.

//especially Lammy, in his daft racial comments. //

[jim360]

"If [the Grenfell residents] abandon the process, they'll never know the truth."

I agree that they should stick to the process, but perhaps it's better to say that *we'll* never learn the truth. They already know it, probably, or at least have a far clearer picture of the inaction of the relevant authorities than we do.

But after way, we are both lucky in being able to look out on this, largely, from the outside. Easy to know what the right thing to do is when you're disconnected from the whole affair (at least, I hope I'm right in assuming that you too haven't personally been caught up in this).

[EDDIE51]

mikey, Yes, this affair has got years to run yet. Remember it took 28 years for inquests into the Hillsborough disaster deaths!

[naomi24]

Jim, // They already know it, probably, or at least have a far clearer picture of the inaction of the relevant authorities than we do.//

That doesn’t mean anything one way or the other. They either know the truth or they don’t.

I’m not personally caught up in this, but I’ll stand by what I said – if they don’t support the inquiry they will never know the truth. I mean, for a start, were all their complaints justified? That is something that only an investigation can answer.

[Togo]

Poor Lammey, upset about a "white upper middle-class" man being in charge. Corbyn will have to make way for Abbot then.

[mikey4444]

Eddie ...agree 100% about Hillsborough

...and there still some on here that refuse to believe the truth, even after all that time....horses and water comes to mind !

[jim360]

" I’ll stand by what I said – if they don’t support the inquiry they will never know the truth."

I did say that I agreed with you on this. I'm just also saying that I'm not a bit surprised that the residents don't see it that way.

[mikey4444]

Jim...I am with you all the way here.

[naomi24]

Jim, you said "They already know it, probably....". Personally, I doubt that.

[jim360]

Have you ever chanced to look at the posts from the Grenfell Action Group blog? As in, from the residents themselves? Before the fire, as has been said, there were plenty of concerns, plenty of attempts to express to the management their fears of disaster, culminating in this post from November 2016:

"Unfortunately, the Grenfell Action Group have reached the conclusion that only an incident that results in serious loss of life of KCTMO residents will allow the external scrutiny to occur that will shine a light on the practices that characterise the malign governance of this non-functioning organisation."

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/

With posts like that in mind, that are a matter of public record, I'd say that yes, they did know the truth a darn sight better than you are giving them credit for.

[Peter Pedant]

blimey this answer has become unexpectedly technical on the issue of bias in judges

//it (Jimz argument) wasn’t the same line. The analogy doesn’t work at all.// [someone]

well said that person:

the leading case as er I have already said on judge bias in England is
Pinochet no 2 - narty Lord Hoffman was a previous director of amnesty international and had therefore an interest in the case
here
http://swarb.co.uk/regina-v-bow-street-metropolitan-stipendiary-magistrate-ex-parte-pinochet-ugarte-no-2-hl-15-jan-1999/

if anyone can steer me in the direction of Trump Curiel etc ( as a judgement rather than CNN) I would be grateful

as for Eddie's point the judge isnt famous
OK ed who is the lord chief justice ?
Worth of Mortvers - no used to be. Judge Judge - no used to be
Lord Lane nope - used to be twenty years ago any other takers
the one with the funny name egon ? eadie ?
OK
who is the Lord Chancellor ?
Irvine ? no used to be Mackay of Clashferrrn no used to be
Finlay of Arden Hoos ? no never Flacconer no used to be

name any judge on the high court .....

see none of them are famous

[EDDIE51]

PP as I said earlier , the Judge spent most of his career analysing complex contract law cases so is almost unknown outside legal circles.
But with over 20 contractors and subcontractors plus the council involved in the Grenfell towers refurbishment that is exactly what is needed here.

[mikey4444]

Yes Eddie....you are probably right.

[Baldric]

Mikey @ 08:05,

///especially Lammy, in his daft racial comments.///

So Lammy is a Racist then?

[Peter Pedant]

well they are getting on with it I must say
They said the remains would not be cleared before Christmas um 2017
( painstaking removal with respect and dangerous building)
and they did it by 5 pm today !

so they are onto breaking the 28 y record