Trump/Ukraine, What Will He Do?
News14 mins ago
What Is Other Ab Members Opinion?
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I am not commenting, just want others views.
I am not commenting, just want others views.
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I don’t agree that NJ’s post is well crafted, by his own admission most of it is beside the point. He says nothing has changed, but of course it has. What has changed is people’s understanding of what Brexit means and what it doesn’t mean, and that will continue to change as we learn more over the coming months.
Their understanding was that leaving would mean disruption as processes presently involving the EU would have to be covered by ourselves, and that has changed so now instead they understand that leaving will mean disruption as processes presently involving the EU will have to be covered by ourselves.
“What has changed is people’s understanding of what Brexit means and what it doesn’t mean…”
My understanding of it has not changed and nor has that of anybody I know. My understanding was (and still is) that we shall no longer be members of the EU, will no longer enjoy any of the advantages or suffer any of the disadvantages of our membership, will have no influence over EU decisions and have no association with any of the EU’s institutions. Not only was I fully aware that we would not be part of the Single Market or Customs Union (something which, it is now being said, was not understood) but I fully expected it. I cannot fathom why anybody should expect us to leave the EU but be part of two of its most significant institutions. Partnership of those institutions carries far too much baggage.
People’s understanding of the consequences of their vote varied enormously (as you would expect) and this applies equally to both camps. Had we voted to Remain I don’t doubt that some in the Brexit camp would now be suggesting that many Remainers did not understand they would be agreeing to a European Army or a harmonised European tax system. But they were not asked that question; they were only asked if they wanted to Remain or Leave (with everything that goes with either choice).
My understanding of it has not changed and nor has that of anybody I know. My understanding was (and still is) that we shall no longer be members of the EU, will no longer enjoy any of the advantages or suffer any of the disadvantages of our membership, will have no influence over EU decisions and have no association with any of the EU’s institutions. Not only was I fully aware that we would not be part of the Single Market or Customs Union (something which, it is now being said, was not understood) but I fully expected it. I cannot fathom why anybody should expect us to leave the EU but be part of two of its most significant institutions. Partnership of those institutions carries far too much baggage.
People’s understanding of the consequences of their vote varied enormously (as you would expect) and this applies equally to both camps. Had we voted to Remain I don’t doubt that some in the Brexit camp would now be suggesting that many Remainers did not understand they would be agreeing to a European Army or a harmonised European tax system. But they were not asked that question; they were only asked if they wanted to Remain or Leave (with everything that goes with either choice).
NJ...The difficulty with what you have just said is in the run-up to the vote last June, you couldn't see the wood for the trees.
There was a huge amount of false information, and obfuscating that many people didn't go into the ballot box with any clear idea of what coming out the EU would entail.
Unlike many on here, I mostly come in contact with ordinary people, who are not as politically aware as many of us on here are. They made their decision on very simple concepts, like how we could get rid of all these foreigners....the ones that are taking our jobs, rather than deeper meaning.
I have said this before but I meet a lot of people who now wished that they had voted to remain and very few that wished that they had voted to leave.
There was a huge amount of false information, and obfuscating that many people didn't go into the ballot box with any clear idea of what coming out the EU would entail.
Unlike many on here, I mostly come in contact with ordinary people, who are not as politically aware as many of us on here are. They made their decision on very simple concepts, like how we could get rid of all these foreigners....the ones that are taking our jobs, rather than deeper meaning.
I have said this before but I meet a lot of people who now wished that they had voted to remain and very few that wished that they had voted to leave.
"Are you saying that you still believe the Government will deliver what you thought Brexit would mean when you voted?"
I never have believed that (especially when most of the political classes are staunchly pro-EU). I trust no government (of any persuasion) to do what the electorate wants (on this or any other issue). Their main aim in life seems to be to upset nobody whilst pleasing nobody in particular. They like a quiet life. There will undoubtedly be what is euphamistically termed "compromise". But quite how you can compromise on what is a binary issue is a little unclear.
"They made their decision on very simple concepts, like how we could get rid of all these foreigners....the ones that are taking our jobs, rather than deeper meaning."
That's of no concern to me, Mikey. People made their decision for all sorts of reasons. I was misled and fed false information. I was told there would be an emergency budget should the vote be to leave; there was not. I expected, in the event of Brexit, for the UK to sever its ties with all EU institutions; now it is being suggested we may not.
For what it's worth (not that it makes any difference) I made the decision in 1992 (following that nice Mr Major signing the Maastricht Treaty) that should I ever be given a vote on the issue, I would vote to leave. Nothing, but nothing that either the UK government or the EU could say would ever alter that. So in some respects I voted in ignorance too but slightly different ignorance.
I never have believed that (especially when most of the political classes are staunchly pro-EU). I trust no government (of any persuasion) to do what the electorate wants (on this or any other issue). Their main aim in life seems to be to upset nobody whilst pleasing nobody in particular. They like a quiet life. There will undoubtedly be what is euphamistically termed "compromise". But quite how you can compromise on what is a binary issue is a little unclear.
"They made their decision on very simple concepts, like how we could get rid of all these foreigners....the ones that are taking our jobs, rather than deeper meaning."
That's of no concern to me, Mikey. People made their decision for all sorts of reasons. I was misled and fed false information. I was told there would be an emergency budget should the vote be to leave; there was not. I expected, in the event of Brexit, for the UK to sever its ties with all EU institutions; now it is being suggested we may not.
For what it's worth (not that it makes any difference) I made the decision in 1992 (following that nice Mr Major signing the Maastricht Treaty) that should I ever be given a vote on the issue, I would vote to leave. Nothing, but nothing that either the UK government or the EU could say would ever alter that. So in some respects I voted in ignorance too but slightly different ignorance.
Mikeys view coincides with mine. As I have said on here at least 5 times, the day after the referendum I asked 18 'leave voters' I knew why they voted 'Leave' of them 12 said 'To get rid of the f******ing immigrants , other answers were because I hate that b**** Cameron and because it was Thatcher what got us in it !
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