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What Is Other Ab Members Opinion?
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I am not commenting, just want others views.
I am not commenting, just want others views.
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//I know how countries outside the EU survive and thrive - which is why the argument that we need the EU to do that is a fatuous one. //
It's not fatuous if other countries thrive and prosper through very similar economic and political integration with their neighbours, which we have effectively voted to stop doing (and persistently resist the obvious alternative, which is EEA).
It's not fatuous if other countries thrive and prosper through very similar economic and political integration with their neighbours, which we have effectively voted to stop doing (and persistently resist the obvious alternative, which is EEA).
//If opting to join one, then getting into a trading block that concentrates on trade, not control, is vital.//
I think that's a false dichotomy. As I understand it, tariffs are not the biggest obstacle to trade in the modern world any more - differing regulatory zones are. If that's the case, then a minimum level of policy integration becomes highly desirable (if not inevitable), and the world's trading zones are as far as I know increasingly moving in that direction.
I think that's a false dichotomy. As I understand it, tariffs are not the biggest obstacle to trade in the modern world any more - differing regulatory zones are. If that's the case, then a minimum level of policy integration becomes highly desirable (if not inevitable), and the world's trading zones are as far as I know increasingly moving in that direction.
Kathyan- at least I understand what's being said- you seem to have problems grasping anything complex that anyone is saying. Let me put it simply for you, Remainers will continue to fight BREXIT because it's a disaster for the majority of people in the country and we are unhappy about the level of duplicty by the Leave campaign that swayed a lot of undecideds to vote leave. Those undecideds have now realised in no small number (take notice of the polls or not- up to you) that they have been conned and wish they had not voted remain, only the little Englanders who think if we wave a flag Johnny Foreigner will roll over to our absurd demands about leaving, seem to have not changed their minds. This is because they are dreaming of a bygone imperialist age where we didn't need big economic clubs like the EU, because we ruled the waves, hoorah! As such we Remainers are exercising our democratic right to continue to oppose BREXIT, and those who don't like it will frankly just have to deal with that as it's part of the democracy they are all snuggling up to because it gave them the victory by a hair's breadth they wanted in the referendum. NOW is my opinion clear to you?
Stop talking to me as though I'm a child, I am NOT stupid and I do understand what is going on! You won't accept that the leave camp won and that we are leaving the EU, so you have to resort to insulting the intelligence of those of us who voted leave. The remain camp don't appear to accept democracy and are doing everything in their power to disrupt or even overturn the result of the referendum. If the vote had gone the other way, do you honestly think that we would have been allowed to behave the way that the remain camp have done, no of course we wouldn't. By the way don't forget the lies and the fear tactics used by the remain camp as well!
A poll of 1 to 2 thousand people selected so as to reflect the entire range of political view , age , region, education and income level is a lot more accurate than the comments of AB members. AB members have been proven to have a very different political opinion from the general population.
Remember the AB voting intention poll before the last election? If AB voting intentions had been followed by the general population we would have over 400 Conservative and 48 UKIP MP's instead of the hung parliment with no UKIP MPs that we actually got!
AB members are very much more 'Anti Eu, Pro Tory ' than the general population. We have to take that into consideration when assessing the EU / UK situation on here. AB does NOT represent the view of the UK population as a whole!
Remember the AB voting intention poll before the last election? If AB voting intentions had been followed by the general population we would have over 400 Conservative and 48 UKIP MP's instead of the hung parliment with no UKIP MPs that we actually got!
AB members are very much more 'Anti Eu, Pro Tory ' than the general population. We have to take that into consideration when assessing the EU / UK situation on here. AB does NOT represent the view of the UK population as a whole!
“Remainers will continue to fight BREXIT because it's a disaster for the majority of people in the country…”
A contention yet to be shown.
“….and we are unhappy about the level of duplicty by the Leave campaign that swayed a lot of undecideds to vote leave.”
An argument that could be equally applied to both sides.
The economic pros and cons of Brexit are yet to be witnessed and in any case it is unlikely anyone will reliably be able to disentangle the changes that would have occurred anyway from those attributable to Brexit. But, a full year after the vote, one set of warnings about the consequences to leave can be examined. In the final days before June 23rd Mr Osborne (remember him?) issued a dire warning to the electorate. He said that a vote to leave will result in a hit to the economy so large that he will have little choice but to tear apart Conservative manifesto promises in an emergency budget delivered within weeks of an out vote. Among the measures he said would have to be considered (in a budget by 21st July 2016, remember) were these:
• £15bn of tax rises, comprising a 2p rise in the basic rate of income tax to 22%, a 3p rise in the higher rate to 43% plus a 5% rise in the inheritance tax rate to 45p
• An increase in alcohol and petrol duties by 5%
• Spending cuts worth £15bn, including a 2% reduction for health, defence and education, equivalent to £2.5bn, £1.2bn, £1.15bn a year respectively
• Larger cuts of 5% from policing, transport and local government budgets
When Mr Osborne said “Within weeks” I don’t imagine he meant “56 weeks (and counting)” so I must have been out when that budget took place and if it did I don’t recall any of those measures being included in it. All sorts of things were promised and threatened by both sides and to accuse one side or the other of such influential duplicity is disingenuous.
Anyway, much of this is beside the point. The country voted to leave in the referendum, the Supreme Court identified and stipulated the process needed to trigger A50 and the Commons voted by five to one to invoke it. Nothing has changed since then and in any case the reasons people voted to leave were not solely based on the economy. To keep saying "People didn't vote to be poorer" or "People didn't vote to leave the single market or customs union" is ridiculous. They were not asked those questions. They answered the only one they were asked and must accept that leaving the EU entails everything that goes with it.
It’s quite true that AB is not a true reflection of the mood of the country. But then neither is the opinion of Vince Cable or the former governor of Sainsbury’s.
A contention yet to be shown.
“….and we are unhappy about the level of duplicty by the Leave campaign that swayed a lot of undecideds to vote leave.”
An argument that could be equally applied to both sides.
The economic pros and cons of Brexit are yet to be witnessed and in any case it is unlikely anyone will reliably be able to disentangle the changes that would have occurred anyway from those attributable to Brexit. But, a full year after the vote, one set of warnings about the consequences to leave can be examined. In the final days before June 23rd Mr Osborne (remember him?) issued a dire warning to the electorate. He said that a vote to leave will result in a hit to the economy so large that he will have little choice but to tear apart Conservative manifesto promises in an emergency budget delivered within weeks of an out vote. Among the measures he said would have to be considered (in a budget by 21st July 2016, remember) were these:
• £15bn of tax rises, comprising a 2p rise in the basic rate of income tax to 22%, a 3p rise in the higher rate to 43% plus a 5% rise in the inheritance tax rate to 45p
• An increase in alcohol and petrol duties by 5%
• Spending cuts worth £15bn, including a 2% reduction for health, defence and education, equivalent to £2.5bn, £1.2bn, £1.15bn a year respectively
• Larger cuts of 5% from policing, transport and local government budgets
When Mr Osborne said “Within weeks” I don’t imagine he meant “56 weeks (and counting)” so I must have been out when that budget took place and if it did I don’t recall any of those measures being included in it. All sorts of things were promised and threatened by both sides and to accuse one side or the other of such influential duplicity is disingenuous.
Anyway, much of this is beside the point. The country voted to leave in the referendum, the Supreme Court identified and stipulated the process needed to trigger A50 and the Commons voted by five to one to invoke it. Nothing has changed since then and in any case the reasons people voted to leave were not solely based on the economy. To keep saying "People didn't vote to be poorer" or "People didn't vote to leave the single market or customs union" is ridiculous. They were not asked those questions. They answered the only one they were asked and must accept that leaving the EU entails everything that goes with it.
It’s quite true that AB is not a true reflection of the mood of the country. But then neither is the opinion of Vince Cable or the former governor of Sainsbury’s.
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