what do you think of global warming

[_azo_]

i know a lot about global warming but i am not very sure of explaning it theres a lot about it what do you think about it and how we can help

[january_bug]

Well, first step is punctuation - that's always VERY helpful in a discussion in writing!

I presume that the amount we recycle helps on global warming.  I still feel we should have a system like that in Germany, where one is obliged to separate all rubbish, and even public litter bins have different compartments.  I'm not sure of the CBA of such a scheme though, and obviously that would be necessary before a decision were made. 

I also feel that more should be done to provide better public transport.  What we have where I live is a joke, but I know there are many places that are worse.  I could get over the rubbish timetable if it didn't cost over �1.20 to go 3 miles into town.  Viscious downward spiral circle thing as far as I can see. 

To me, environmental care, like charity, begins at home, and sad though it is, I think people need more encouragement to make more of an effort.

Oh, and people should go back to using milkmen... at least it's in recylcable glass rather than plastic containers used in the supermarkets!  Longest journey smallest first step and all that. 

[Chessman]

I agree totally with Jans post, (hope you don't mind me calling you that), especially about the punctuation. Now, Gobal Warming, I think there's no doubt that we are contributing to it, but if you look back to the history of this planet, it comes naturally, and periodically, and if you go back to pre-history, one Gobal Warming period wiped out almost all living things.

I don't know if this one, if it is really happening, is natural or man made, but one thing is blatently obvious, a lot more should be done to preserve this planet.

[qapmoc]

Hi all,  agreed that warming-cooling cycles are a natural part of the earths systems. However it is easy to see from past records that the levels of CO2 and other gases and the Global mean temperature have started rising dramatically from roughly about the start of the industrial revolution, this may be a coincidence but if so its a big one. Sea level has started to track these rises also now.

Jan_bug I am sorry but I don't think that encouragement will work for the majority of the worlds populations who are only concerned with consumerism these days, they will carry on as usual (or more so) until something forces them to change.  Maybe the forces for change are already starting to gather strength, see the hurricanes in the US just now for instance - strongest since records began, most in a season since records etc... etc...   Floods+landslides, major earthquakes, yeah I know earthquakes are not weather but who knows,  maybe changes in the environment affect these things. 

[qapmoc]

What to do about it, well when the Americans who have 5% of the worlds population and but consume 25% of the worlds energy resources elect someone like BUSH who, even now appears to be an un-believer in mans effect on our environment and when most countries spend a lot more fighting than they do on these issues, and China+ India are clamouring for more energy,  probably the only thing you can do is make sure you live well above current sea level and not close to the coast.   

[shaneystar]

Well it's a fact the icecaps are melting.I think the Americans should sign up to Kyoto ,they are the biggest energy guzzlers.But that will never happen.And they now want to disturb the eskimos and wild life in Alaska and drill for yet more oil..I can remember the east coast floods in 1953 when most of the east coast from Lincolnshire down to Canvey Isand was flooded.The sea defences in this country and particularly here in Norfolk are abominable.A man in Aldeburgh is spending thousands of pounds shoring up his bit of coast to prevent his house from falling into the sea.I think governments ..not just in this country..turn a blind eye and hope it will go away.But in view of all the severe weather conditions eg.Katrina,the tsunami,there is a definite change in global weather conditions.
I think we all have to do our bit and recycle and the government should invest in a better public transport system and so on ad infinitum but I think now ,it's a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Look at the fridge mountain.On the continent they have plant to deal with this.Do we? No. In Holland they even have plant to recycle disposable nappies.Why can't they do that sort of thing here?
Must agree with janbug here.In Germany they have an excellent recycling system .Our government could do well to take a leaf out of their book.

[january_bug]

Just a minor clarification to my original post, although I'm flattered that so many agree with me! :-)  When I said "encourage", I meant to include financial incentives.  I believe that in Germany you can be fined for failing to separate rubbish... this is pretty strong encouragement!  (I have only ever lived in a block of flats in Germany and given that the bins were communal, the fine system didn't apply, for obvious causation/evidence reasons). 

Another great idea from Germany is the "Pfand system" where you pay a small deposit for every bottle you buy (glass or plastic) and you then have to take the bottles back to the supermarket for recycling and they return the deposit then.  Again, it's sad, but a financial incentive might be what's needed. 

[jake-the-peg]

I think that we are contributing to global warming but I also think there is reasonable doubt about it - I'm sure Loosehead will be along shortly to reinforce those doubts so I'll let him expand on these.

There's also a lot of myths about. I particularly like the people who plant trees to help with global warming. Trees do absorb carbon dioxide and give off oxygen but they also do the reverse at night. True as a net product they form their structure out of carbon, taking some from the atmosphere but if they fall and rot they release gasses that put it all back again.

I think recycling is important but less for the energy saving than for the environmental impact of the overflowing landfill sites - There are two within a 10 mile radius of wher I live and they're begining to resemble small mountains - I think that's pretty common too.

Air transport is one of the biggest atmospheric polution threats, there was a measurable change to the solar radiation hitting the planet during the two days after 9/11 when planes were grounded.

Probably the biggest thing we could all do is to stop shopping at Tesco/Sainsburys/Morrison's ....etc. Most of the produce if transported huge distances packaged with large amounts packaging.

For a bit of fun you maight want to try this website and see what your environmental footprint is. That is howmany planets we'd need if everybody lived like you http://www.myfootprint.org/

[THECORBYLOON]

jan-bug, punctuation is helpful but abbreviations should be explained. What does "CBA" mean? 

[january_bug]

Sorry - that was just lazy typing on my part.  :-)  It's Cost Benefit Analysis.  This time last year I wouldn't have known either.  Sorry again folks!

[nedflanders]

Yawn Yawn Yawn, If you think than we (humans) can do anything to change our climate you are all sadly mistaken!  If we all adhere to kyoto and it is a success then we will reduce the global mean temp by 0.04�C -WOW what an acheivement that will be!  There are many doomesters out there pedalling their agendas, mainly fanatical environmentalists and there are others on the opposite side of the spectrum mainly industry backed scientists trying to disprove theories.

The whole point of my rant is that all of which we know on Global warming is THEORY!  We do not have any scientific fact!  If you think anything you read about temperatures, sea levels, ice shelfs is factual you are wrong, it is all analysis, computer models and assumptions made by scientists who have an agenda depending on whom is funding them.

Until we have unbiased scientific fact we do not know what impact man has made on the environment and what is natural and we are not likely to until at least 2020.  I am all for recycling, as we do need to consume less as the earth�s resources wont last forever but some of the above comments made me laugh.

For the record:

Jan Bug: your gas boiler in the house gives off more emissions than your car in a year.
Qapmoc: we don�t know if sea levels are rising, the data in inaccurate.
Shaneystar: hurricanes and the tsunami have absolutely nothing to do with global warming!!! As for your rant against America, India and China will soon overtake the US on energy demands but as they have vastly larger populations the energy per head of population figures don�t look as bad, it is always trendy though to bash Bush!  Oh and India and China have not ratified Kyoto.

Arctic Ice shelves receding, Antarctic ice shelves expanding, what region more ice?

Rant Over���for now
Jan Bug � apologies for any punctuation error�s ;-)

[january_bug]

*feels very defensive*

I didn't say anything about cars or boilers did I!?!  I don't know what boiler we have... I live at home.  I know we just had a very efficient one fitted, I'll tell you what it is later.  Also, I only drive a 1.4 Corsa 25 miles every day with VERY few long journeys and I've only just had the car 2 weeks! :-(  I recycle as much as I can, we get our milk in glass bottles, I avoid products with excessive packaging, we shop at a farmers' market, we minimise the use of the tumble dryer and don't do excessive amounts of washing.  We turn all our lights off all the time (my Mum actually wants me to live in the dark) and hardly have the heating on at all.  We're all out at work all day so even the hot water is off during that time.  Oh, and the loft is fully insulated.  I'm sorry if I'm still doing stuff wrong, but I really do try!!!

[shaneystar]

That's an interesting site jake-the-peg.My footprint is 3.4.
There was a very good programme on recently with Penny Poyzer where she went into peoples homes and showed them all about recycling and so on.I was shocked to see the amount of resources people waste.One family were throwing enough food in the bin to be be able to feed themselves for another week. The amount of water,gas,electricity and petrol some of them were getting through was unbelievable.
Consumerism is partly to blame.We all want strawberries in December and so on.Not myself personally though.I won't buy anything that has been flown round the world if I can help it.I think recycling and so on should be promoted big time by the government and local councils.The trouble with not shopping locally though is that there are very few local shops to be had.They have let the big supermarkets become too powerful and quite frankly they hold the consumer and their suppliers to ransom.There is no choice for a lot of people but to shop there.Here endeth the lesson as I have to dodge the rain and put my wheelie bin out !

[january_bug]

PS - We also NEVER leave the TV on standby overnight, or in fact use it at all during the day, and the computer isn't used that much actually, despite my prolific posting on AB! :-p

[january_bug]

Footprints - Mine's 3.8 although as it's my parents house, and I still live in Imperial, I have NO idea how big the house is.  I also have no idea what the fuel consumption on my car is as I've only had it 2 weeks!  I feel that as a household we are more environmentally friendly than most, but we're not organic grow your own etc etc. 

[nedflanders]

Wasn't particularly picking you out J-Bug.  A typical "high efficiency" condensing gas boiler will produce more emmisions than the average car doing typical annual mileage!  But the government tax petrol at ridiculous amonts and claim the green tax because they can get away with victimising motorists.  Now weight that against taxing gas and gas boilers at the same rates and claim the green tax and what happens?  You get OAP's dying cos they cant afforf their heating bills.  Not good PR is it?  Alasdair Campbell would be horrified!

P.s. The Tsunami-Global warming link just proves that there is typical scaremongering going on and that some people will try anything to get a point across!

[january_bug]

ned - then don't say "you"/ "your" when you mean "one"/"ones" :-p :-)

I still maintain that instead of taxing petrol more and more, it might be an idea to start thinking about local public transport.  I suppose the two are controlled at different levels of government (?).  I'd happily get the bus to work every day if there was a decent timetable and if it wasn't actually twice as expensive as going by car!!!

[WaldoMcFroog]

It's perhaps pertinant to note that the last time Ned posted links to scientific organisations which believed there was no such thing as global warming, another ABer provided a link that showed they were bankrolled by the oil companies...

Moreover Ned may be right that global warming is not responsible for hurricanes and that there is indeed a natural cycle of hurricane activity in the Atlantic that would predict higher numbers during the current time, but in the interests of fairness should maybe acknowledge that globally hurricanes have increased in severity over the past decade and this seems to have correllation with increasing sea temperatures. Most scientist do indeed attribute this to global warming.

An MIT study shows that severity and duration of hurricanes has increased by about 50% over the past 30 years. Globally, there has been a 0.5 degree C rise in global sea surface temperatures since 1970. If the likes of Ned were correct, and these temperature variations were the result of natural cycles, one would expect to find variations across the globe, since different bodies of water experience their cycles at different points. They did not - the temperature rise was global, suggesting that global warming did in fact occur.

Good science must be skeptical, on this I would certainly agree with Ned, (and I also agree the tsunami wasn't related to global warming). There must not be a rush to conclude that every change in the weather system is due to global warming, but at the same time, global warming is the best and most credible theory we have. Oh, and what's this bandying around the word theory like it's a dirty word? You going to have a go at gravity or evolution next?

[shaneystar]

I don't think that by mentioning "America and Kyoto" that this can be construed as a rant against Mr:Bush. Freak weather conditions are perhaps just that and not a result of global warming.Sea levels not rising?Try telling that to the people up the coast from me whose clifftop cafe fell into the sea during the summer. Mind you what goes around comes around and villages have been washed into the sea hundreds of years ago. We have the Dunwich village off the coast here,where, on a still night you can hear the church bell toll under the sea.Or so the legend goes.Our coastline is eroding in places at an alarming rate.
I still think though that global warming or not we all have to do our bit for the environment .We have become a throw away society and all this rubbish has to go somewhere before we sink beneath it.
Otherwise what sort of world are we leaving for future generations.

[jake-the-peg]

Too many people seem to mix up the issues

I think Ned has an good case that Kyoto will not stop global warming.

I think the case that humans are not directly causing it is also good but may be wrong.

I think the case that humans are contributing to it (not just CO2 but other pollution too) is compelling but not yet proven.

The fact that the climate is changing is now almost incontravertable. I think even President Bush grudging admitted this.

So the question is what do you do - if the climate is warming and the science is not yet 100% proven.

a) Maximise the steps you can to reduce pollution? (emmission limits in the developed world AND birthrate controls in the developing world) - difficult and unpopular hands up for a cut in standard of living

b) Carry on regardless and say "I'm not causing it so I can carry on polluting as normal" - Ostrich policy

c) "wait and see"  - likely to be too late. Global systems have a high inertia. Trends can take hundreds or thousands of years to reverse.

I guess b's the better option if you don't have kids.

[mash]

More and more evidence is supporting a trend of Global warming and in addition this evidence is usually discovered by slightly less biased scientists than those who disprove it. I believe it is happening and that we all have to act and play our part in changing life styles to suit. If i'm wrong so what, we have made some good positive changes, if I am right then we will kick ourselves as the planet suffers. We need to support developing nations and rather than imposing our moral high ground, demonstrate the way forward with all 1st world nations getting there house in order. Proving that we can and are prepared to change our ways and make some sacrifices. I'm up for it, in fact i've already started!!