ChatterBank13 mins ago
What A Difference A Year Makes........
22 Answers
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It seems even the residue of the Pseudo Tories now accept that Labour has been reclaimed by Jezza and the hard left. The public now have a clear choice.
It seems even the residue of the Pseudo Tories now accept that Labour has been reclaimed by Jezza and the hard left. The public now have a clear choice.
Answers
It is always difficult to change ones opinion, especially when long held beliefs used to be true. And so it was for Labour's dinosaur Blairite MPs. After losing 2 General Elections and the EU Referendum, their opinions and beliefs were being being roundly rejected by the electorate. First their pro EU mantra was blown away by the Brexit vote, and then their...
14:47 Tue 03rd Oct 2017
Not half.
A year ago people were predicting the death of Labour and The Tory party was set to flourish "in aeturnum" with new constituency boundaries, restrictions on union finding, Labour in the grip of the commies and the Tories seen as handling the good ship Brxit slowly but surely.
All of a sudden it's panic stations at CCHQ as they struggle to come to terms with a re-vitalised opposition and the inevitable differences over Brexit now rocking the boat dangerously.
Of course in 5 years' time the Blues may surge to victory, but just now things look very different.
A year ago people were predicting the death of Labour and The Tory party was set to flourish "in aeturnum" with new constituency boundaries, restrictions on union finding, Labour in the grip of the commies and the Tories seen as handling the good ship Brxit slowly but surely.
All of a sudden it's panic stations at CCHQ as they struggle to come to terms with a re-vitalised opposition and the inevitable differences over Brexit now rocking the boat dangerously.
Of course in 5 years' time the Blues may surge to victory, but just now things look very different.
there was a clear choice at the last election. How did that go?
As one leader has since increased his control and the other has lost hers, I don't know that you'll be seeing much change - except for the possibility that old Tory supporters will have passed away and more young Labour ones will be around.
As one leader has since increased his control and the other has lost hers, I don't know that you'll be seeing much change - except for the possibility that old Tory supporters will have passed away and more young Labour ones will be around.
The European Referendum was a nightmare for theTpries (or whoever was in power) which is why Cameron did not want it.
The result is that the Conservative Government have been saddled with carrying out a policy that it does not want to do. Labour voters won the Leave vote, and if the Conservativesdon't deliver everything that everybody wants (which is impossible) the voters will punish the Conservative Party for it. It is a lose-lose situation, which is why Cameron scarpered sharpish.
The result is that the Conservative Government have been saddled with carrying out a policy that it does not want to do. Labour voters won the Leave vote, and if the Conservativesdon't deliver everything that everybody wants (which is impossible) the voters will punish the Conservative Party for it. It is a lose-lose situation, which is why Cameron scarpered sharpish.
//voters will punish the Conservative Party for it.//
But hardly likely to vote for a labour party that is basically full of remoaners.
//the possibility that old Tory supporters will have passed away and more young Labour ones will be around. //
But you choose to forget that as young people grow up and start to understand basic economics and pay tax they tend to veer toward conservatism. This would imply that whilst older Tories die there will also be younger ones to take their place. This is nothing new.
But hardly likely to vote for a labour party that is basically full of remoaners.
//the possibility that old Tory supporters will have passed away and more young Labour ones will be around. //
But you choose to forget that as young people grow up and start to understand basic economics and pay tax they tend to veer toward conservatism. This would imply that whilst older Tories die there will also be younger ones to take their place. This is nothing new.
“…except for the possibility that old Tory supporters will have passed away and more young Labour ones will be around.”
You should not make the assumption that young Labour voters remain Labour voters as they age. When they grow up, no longer know everything and (most importantly) have to start paying for their own and their families’ necessities, many of them have a re-think. It begins to dawn on them that the wheelbarrows full of money that the Labour Party promised to shower upon them in order to secure their votes actually have to come from somewhere. Then they look around and discover that the the only “somewhere” is actually their bank balances.
it's quite easy to please the "Leave" voters, Gromit. All that has to be achieved is the UK's withdrawal from the EU and its reversion to a normal country. It's not quite so easy to please the Remainers because, apart from not wanting to leave at all, those who accept our inevitable departure seem to believe that because they did not vote specifically to leave (say) the Single Market, the Customs' Union, Euratom and all the other EU institutions that we should somehow be allowed to remain in them and take advantage of them. They are the ones any government will find hard to pease.
You should not make the assumption that young Labour voters remain Labour voters as they age. When they grow up, no longer know everything and (most importantly) have to start paying for their own and their families’ necessities, many of them have a re-think. It begins to dawn on them that the wheelbarrows full of money that the Labour Party promised to shower upon them in order to secure their votes actually have to come from somewhere. Then they look around and discover that the the only “somewhere” is actually their bank balances.
it's quite easy to please the "Leave" voters, Gromit. All that has to be achieved is the UK's withdrawal from the EU and its reversion to a normal country. It's not quite so easy to please the Remainers because, apart from not wanting to leave at all, those who accept our inevitable departure seem to believe that because they did not vote specifically to leave (say) the Single Market, the Customs' Union, Euratom and all the other EU institutions that we should somehow be allowed to remain in them and take advantage of them. They are the ones any government will find hard to pease.
Ymb,
// But hardly likely to vote for a labour party that is basically full of remoaners. //
Do try and keep up. The left are against the EU, Corbyn voted against Thatcher, Major and Blair when they ratified EU Treaties in the Commons. Corbyns supporters want out of the EU more than May, Hammond and the rest of the Conservative Remainer MPs. But that is irrelevent, the Conservatives have to press ahead with a policy that will please almost no one.
The referendum was won by Leave, and the voters were promised certain benefits on leaving
- More spending on the NHS
- Savings of £Billions on our membership fee
- More trade with the rest of the world
- More jobs
- Running our own affairs
If just one of those things does not in fact happen,then the voters will punish the party that is in power, the Conservative Party.
I hope for everyones sake that we can replace EU trade with more trade with the US. But we are in serious trouble if it doesn't, and making trade agreements is very complex and something we haven't had to do for 4 decades.
The relative easy negociation of leaving the EU is proving beyond the wit of Davis and Co., so it does not bode well for more tricky tasks like cutting a deal with Turkey, China, Russia et al.
// But hardly likely to vote for a labour party that is basically full of remoaners. //
Do try and keep up. The left are against the EU, Corbyn voted against Thatcher, Major and Blair when they ratified EU Treaties in the Commons. Corbyns supporters want out of the EU more than May, Hammond and the rest of the Conservative Remainer MPs. But that is irrelevent, the Conservatives have to press ahead with a policy that will please almost no one.
The referendum was won by Leave, and the voters were promised certain benefits on leaving
- More spending on the NHS
- Savings of £Billions on our membership fee
- More trade with the rest of the world
- More jobs
- Running our own affairs
If just one of those things does not in fact happen,then the voters will punish the party that is in power, the Conservative Party.
I hope for everyones sake that we can replace EU trade with more trade with the US. But we are in serious trouble if it doesn't, and making trade agreements is very complex and something we haven't had to do for 4 decades.
The relative easy negociation of leaving the EU is proving beyond the wit of Davis and Co., so it does not bode well for more tricky tasks like cutting a deal with Turkey, China, Russia et al.
Ymb,
Don't be daft, the Remainers are not in the negociation to Leave the EU.
That is between Conservative Government Ministers, namely Davis and Fox (firm brexitters) and the EU Commission.
Any lack of progress is due to that dynamic duo not having a coherent strategy (they want to leave but keep all the advantages of being a member). Brexit is not being held up by Remainers, it is being held up by incompetent Leavers who do not seem to have a clue on how to negotiate.
Don't be daft, the Remainers are not in the negociation to Leave the EU.
That is between Conservative Government Ministers, namely Davis and Fox (firm brexitters) and the EU Commission.
Any lack of progress is due to that dynamic duo not having a coherent strategy (they want to leave but keep all the advantages of being a member). Brexit is not being held up by Remainers, it is being held up by incompetent Leavers who do not seem to have a clue on how to negotiate.
So why did Labour campaign for remain? Perhaps they didn't but have now decided that because it was Labour voters that voted to leave they thought they should do a uturn?
Anyway my question would be where are all the moderate Labour MPs now? Where are the ones who voted against Corbyn in the leadership contests?
Have they quietly accepted the new shape of the party to keep their snouts in the troff or have they moved on with their principles intact?
Anyway my question would be where are all the moderate Labour MPs now? Where are the ones who voted against Corbyn in the leadership contests?
Have they quietly accepted the new shape of the party to keep their snouts in the troff or have they moved on with their principles intact?
"the latest YouGov figures suggest Labour is in the lead among those aged up to 49. At this srate, they'll be your age before The Truth finally dawns on them! "
Indeed so: it's increasingly a myth that people "come round to the Tories" once out of nappies.
It will do the Tories good to be shaken out of that breathtaking arrogance anyway
Indeed so: it's increasingly a myth that people "come round to the Tories" once out of nappies.
It will do the Tories good to be shaken out of that breathtaking arrogance anyway
"So why did Labour campaign for remain? Perhaps they didn't but have now decided that because it was Labour voters that voted to leave they thought they should do a uturn? " - at the time Jezza was pretty weak, he was the leader but he still had the Blair popinjays on his case, he went along with the Pseudo Tories and allied with remain but in Reality Jezza is pro brexit, hence he was blamed for not trying hard enough by Saint Tony and co after the referendum. In reality the only saving grace of Jezza is that he is in the brexit camp.
It is always difficult to change ones opinion, especially when long held beliefs used to be true.
And so it was for Labour's dinosaur Blairite MPs. After losing 2 General Elections and the EU Referendum, their opinions and beliefs were being being roundly rejected by the electorate. First their pro EU mantra was blown away by the Brexit vote, and then their anti their own membership (we are unelectable) suffered a humiliating blow when the Party gained 38 MPs instead of losing 100.
So they were faced with a dilemma, move on, or move out. Most now seem happy to ride on the Corbyn wave, like they did the Blair wave. Or at least until the bubble bursts (mixing my metaphores there, but you get the gist).
In short, the Labour Party has changed direction and is dragging its old guard with it, while the Tories are just stuck in the mud and everyone is pulling in a different direction.
And so it was for Labour's dinosaur Blairite MPs. After losing 2 General Elections and the EU Referendum, their opinions and beliefs were being being roundly rejected by the electorate. First their pro EU mantra was blown away by the Brexit vote, and then their anti their own membership (we are unelectable) suffered a humiliating blow when the Party gained 38 MPs instead of losing 100.
So they were faced with a dilemma, move on, or move out. Most now seem happy to ride on the Corbyn wave, like they did the Blair wave. Or at least until the bubble bursts (mixing my metaphores there, but you get the gist).
In short, the Labour Party has changed direction and is dragging its old guard with it, while the Tories are just stuck in the mud and everyone is pulling in a different direction.
It's probably worth noting that today's young are particularly unlikely to become Tory voters because the prospects most of them have for acquiring capital are very slim. Their earnings have consistently gone down while their rent had skyrocketed. House prices in some parts of the country are now 15-20 times earnings (and scarcely better elsewhere), so the chances of an average young person ever being able to save enough to buy a house (which you effectivelg need to do in order to save money), start a family, etc., is a pipe dream.
Thatcher famously pitched herself to voters who had a "stake". The generation which were her political base bought houses, saved money and raised families at a time when homes were relatively affordable and a time when earnings were increasing - a chance their children are not going to have.
That has serious implications for voting. The tories can no longer bank on people supporting them as they age and develop. Pretty much the only demographic in which the Tories have a lead over Labour are pensioners - a group dying off at about 2% a year, as Lord Heseltine recently observed.
I thought Labour would die earlier this year. How very wrong I was...
Thatcher famously pitched herself to voters who had a "stake". The generation which were her political base bought houses, saved money and raised families at a time when homes were relatively affordable and a time when earnings were increasing - a chance their children are not going to have.
That has serious implications for voting. The tories can no longer bank on people supporting them as they age and develop. Pretty much the only demographic in which the Tories have a lead over Labour are pensioners - a group dying off at about 2% a year, as Lord Heseltine recently observed.
I thought Labour would die earlier this year. How very wrong I was...
There was a Young Tory day recently, in Somerset, and while there as a sprinkling on non-white faces, it was still all floppy hair Henryes.
When the Tories start to recruit in inner-city areas, amongst ordinary working class people, will be when I start to get worried.
Look at the Tory Party conference....its like a mass meeting of the Telegraph Gardening
When the Tories start to recruit in inner-city areas, amongst ordinary working class people, will be when I start to get worried.
Look at the Tory Party conference....its like a mass meeting of the Telegraph Gardening
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