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Why Did Remain Only Use Project Fear In Their Campagn?
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Jonathan Lynn says the primary function of the EU etc was to prevent war, that may be the case but he's also right about one other thing: "He added: “I think the campaign was meaningless. Nobody on the Remain side talked about the real purpose of the EU in its origins, which was to prevent war." - remain battered us with project fear, day after day. I never heard any positive campaigning at all, no one told me about the positive reasons to stay, no one sold it. Is that were remain went wrong?
Jonathan Lynn says the primary function of the EU etc was to prevent war, that may be the case but he's also right about one other thing: "He added: “I think the campaign was meaningless. Nobody on the Remain side talked about the real purpose of the EU in its origins, which was to prevent war." - remain battered us with project fear, day after day. I never heard any positive campaigning at all, no one told me about the positive reasons to stay, no one sold it. Is that were remain went wrong?
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From a Brexit point of view collaborativ
14:09 Fri 13th Oct 2017
Maybe because the claim is nonsense. Co-dependant economies minimise the chance of war because of what can be lost. But a) that can be the case without forming a single nation b) it doesn't prevent war anyway, just makes it less likely.
What really helps is for no one (or few) nations feeling that they are being done down and prevented from enjoying the lifestyle of others. Like salaries, no one disapproves of differentials, as long as they aren't excessive. In an age of democracy, expansion by invading one's neighbours to become a larger nation is very unlikely; not impossible, but unlikely.
What really helps is for no one (or few) nations feeling that they are being done down and prevented from enjoying the lifestyle of others. Like salaries, no one disapproves of differentials, as long as they aren't excessive. In an age of democracy, expansion by invading one's neighbours to become a larger nation is very unlikely; not impossible, but unlikely.
"yes jim but when it's continually pressed the populace start to wonder if fear itself is being used in the absence of anything more positive."
You should also take into account that the pro-Leave campaign battered us with Project Fear as well -- obviously in a more ironic sense, as in "this is the best they can come up with, haha!", but often not bothering to address the positive arguments at all, thus sucking away the coverage of such arguments.
That's not to say that it's Leave's "fault" the Remain side lost, it's a reasonable tactic to take your opponents' arguments and disparage them after all. But what I mean is that one reason "Project Fear" seemed so pervasive was that it was in Leave's interests to keep that at the forefront as well, trying to bury the positive case for staying.
You should also take into account that the pro-Leave campaign battered us with Project Fear as well -- obviously in a more ironic sense, as in "this is the best they can come up with, haha!", but often not bothering to address the positive arguments at all, thus sucking away the coverage of such arguments.
That's not to say that it's Leave's "fault" the Remain side lost, it's a reasonable tactic to take your opponents' arguments and disparage them after all. But what I mean is that one reason "Project Fear" seemed so pervasive was that it was in Leave's interests to keep that at the forefront as well, trying to bury the positive case for staying.
jim: "trying to bury the positive case for staying" - what positive case? I cannot remember anything in the news about why we should remain all I could see anywhere was reasons why we should not leave. No doubt articles were written but few if any reached mainstream media. Yes I do accept that the media love negative stuff and no doubt did contribute to the whole fear environment but usually on serious news programs they do try analyse and present more thoroughly. Find me an article of the time telling me why we should remain that is not simply a list of bad things that may happen if we leave.
For me, my main reasons for voting Remain were:
- I felt we'd be in an extremely disadvantageous political position after leaving which would be difficult to make the most of.
- I felt it was unclear what the Brexit "side" wanted to achieve (yes I know everyone who ever voted Leave is always utterly sure what they wanted - unfortunately if you compare the outcomes that different groups of Leavers advocated for at the time, they are quite different).
- I never felt convinced that my government's sovereignty was particularly threatened by Brussels (though I can understand why people do think this way). Thus I've never really been convinced by this claim of politicial emancipation.
None of those are especially fear-based, and none of them are particularly ideologically committed to Europe (which I think has a ton wrong with it).
I do agree, though, that the Remain campaign was an absolute shower (just like most things run by Conservatives...). I hold Cameron and his team largely responsible for it.
- I felt we'd be in an extremely disadvantageous political position after leaving which would be difficult to make the most of.
- I felt it was unclear what the Brexit "side" wanted to achieve (yes I know everyone who ever voted Leave is always utterly sure what they wanted - unfortunately if you compare the outcomes that different groups of Leavers advocated for at the time, they are quite different).
- I never felt convinced that my government's sovereignty was particularly threatened by Brussels (though I can understand why people do think this way). Thus I've never really been convinced by this claim of politicial emancipation.
None of those are especially fear-based, and none of them are particularly ideologically committed to Europe (which I think has a ton wrong with it).
I do agree, though, that the Remain campaign was an absolute shower (just like most things run by Conservatives...). I hold Cameron and his team largely responsible for it.
I appreciate that this will look like dodging your challenge, TTT, and that's partly because it is, but also I've procrastinated enough already today and doing the research needed to find the article(s) you're asking for will take a little bit of time. Hopefully I'll be able to find something later that'll satisfy you -- although, again, I am not sure what the point is other than to prove it's there.
I remember explaining the positive case for remaining on AB from a point of view of scientific research. Or, rather, trying to, since people either rejected it as irrelevant (this seemed odd, because this was in answer to the same basic question you are asking now), or just out-of-hand with no further explanation.
I remember explaining the positive case for remaining on AB from a point of view of scientific research. Or, rather, trying to, since people either rejected it as irrelevant (this seemed odd, because this was in answer to the same basic question you are asking now), or just out-of-hand with no further explanation.
Project fear was never going to work after Tony Blair used it successfully over Iraq. When I heard David Cameron saying a vote to leave could lead to war I remembered Blair's claim that Saddam could launch weapons capable of hitting British territory in 45 minutes. (Turned out the British territory was RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus)
I shall never understand why the main 3 parties wanted to remain tied to Brussels & be ruled by a foreign power. Why oh why are they so anti British ?. I strongly feel that a national election be called for & all electable MPs should be asked the question " Do you support Britain" & if they have the guts to answer honestly, all in favour of remaining tied to the EU should be booted out.
Also, they weren't expecting to lose, so they didn't think they needed to bother spending too much time constructing a positive case for remain.
They thought they'd be OK sticking with the fallback position of just accusing anyone supporting the leave side of being either stupid or a racist, and that would be enough to put people off.
They thought they'd be OK sticking with the fallback position of just accusing anyone supporting the leave side of being either stupid or a racist, and that would be enough to put people off.
TTT....There was just the same amount of black propaganda used by the BREXIT camp before the Referendum, and they still doing it now. Just under half the people that voted, voted to remain, millions of them, but they are ignored by the BREXIT camp and told that they are just moaning.
We are now months down the line from the Ref. but we are still not an inch closer to leaving then we were in June 2016.
The Tories need to get their act in order.
We are now months down the line from the Ref. but we are still not an inch closer to leaving then we were in June 2016.
The Tories need to get their act in order.
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