Latest on the smoking situation

[Loosehead]

Just seen the news. Pubs that sell food: no smoking; pubs that don't/private clubs: up to them and even that will take years. I just think they've missed an opportunity to follow suit with Ireland here. In poll after poll 70%+ of the public agreed with a total ban so what's the governement afraid of? I just dispair at this dithering, ban this disgusting habit in public places now! Thoughts please.

[january_bug]

Loosehead - I'm sorry for going off track. I know YOU understand the point about alcohol, but I felt others didn't. I suppose I shouldn't try to clarfiy things to others in your thread - fair point and I'm sorry. It's not about steering onto another subject though, it's about trying to point out that a huge fuss is being made about the wrong thing.

Buddy - I wasn't meaning to pick a fight with you (I'm not that stupid, belive me!), and I wasn't meaning to be petty. It's just that you've said it twice. I do feel that some of the arguements put forward by anti-smoker (sic) people are a little melodramatic and that is one of them. I believe there was a huge trend for smoking in Shakespearean times.. However, the point I was (badly) trying to make is that smoking increased in the UK after WWI when smokers had been given cigarettes in their ration packs, and couldn't kick the habit when they came home. I'm not trying to detract from the awful suffering that non-smokers go through when sitting in a smokey pub, I'm just saying that it's been going on for close to one century perhaps, but not more.

Loosehead and others , as a customer only (i.e., let's not make arguements about the staff here, unless you are someone who actually works in catering), if you are in a well ventilated smoke free room in a pub, what is your objection to there being an entirely separate room in the pub, separated from the room you're in by at least two doors? This is not a peeing area in a swimming pool, but an entirely different pool, where people are free to pee if they wish, but the water is not shared with the other, larger, pool. Objecting to this for reasons of ones own comfort makes as much sense to me as complaining about the guy next door having a cigarette in his own lounge if one lived in a detached house!!

[undercovers]

there never will be smoking rooms in pubs - how on earth could you fit them into most places (except the massive spoons and yates etc), and even there do you really want to segregate your customers like that, socially and economically it would be difficult.

I'm a bit disappointed the smoking ban didn't go further but i'm sure it will get there without the need to legislate - now non-smokers have a choice i think pubs will quickly realise that more drinkers don't smoke than do, so hopefully non-smokers will just avoid the smoking pubs for awhile and prompt change...

[okeydokey]

Iagree with the no smoking in places that serve food

Iagree with the having smoking rooms ( with improve air-conditioning) for pubs and clubs

I'M A NON-SMOKER

But all the people who are championing the no-smoking cause and using the barstaff as there argument, will

[okeydokey]

sorry something went wrong

What i was about to say was I don't hear much concern about bar staff regarding pay not many people championing, time and a half or double time for working unsociable hours for bar staff

If people want no-smoking fine but don't use bar staff as a battering ram

[Loosehead]

JB, nothing wrong with the smoking rooms you describe. The problem is that they, in reality would not exist, what pub can install adouble door smoking room, presumably with an extraction system. No what you'd end up with at best is a room with a flapping door or at worst a smoking area in the corner somwhere infecting the whole place.

I mean just look at the latest argument, what is food? Crisps? Sandwiches? nuts? I just feel that the governement have created a monster, you'll have arguments up and down the country over what is and what is not exempt. Pubs will change into private clubs to get around it. As a lawyer yourself you know that the more complex a law to more difficult it is to define and enforce. The Irish have the perfect answer, the Scots, Welsh, Northern Irish are following, Italy have followed why must we make such a dogs dinner of what is a very simple proposition.

[OBonio]

Looking forward to it as it's probably the push I need to give up. One of the main reasons I go to the pub is to have a nice relaxing smoke in the warm and dry. Everywhere else is already off limits anyway (home, work etc). It might cut down on my beer intake too...

And to top it all off, LESS MONEY TO THE GOVERMENT!! It's a great idea!

[january_bug]

If the law required a separate room with two doors, then any other arrangement would be unlawful. Just as builders can't install a room with a toilet near to a kitchen without two separating doors.

I'm not in agreement with the government's policy at all - so I'm not defending it. We just each criticise it for different reasons.

One thing that would really assist the people so opposed to smoking in public places would be if they were anti-smokING instead of anti-smokER.

Apologies for any typos, have got a REALLY dodgy internet connection and am trying to type this response before I get disconnected again!

[LeMarchand]

I agree that smoking is a nasty, unhealthy and anti-social habit. However, what I find amusing is the way people bleat about the smell/running eyes/health risks when they voluntarily go to venues that allow it!

(Bar staff excluded, but then I guess one could argue that they could seek other employment and - as already pointed out - no-one is trying to sort out their awful wages).

[KittyGlitter]

Non-smokers should give up their social life, stay at home and stop being selfish to smokers.

(yeah right)

[LeMarchand]

@ KittyGlitter: If your comment was aimed at my post, that not what I said. I just said that if you choose to go where people are smoking, then don't whinge about it. If there are non-smoking pubs (through management policy) in the town where I live, I'm sure there are such places all over the country.

Going to a place where you know there are going to be people smoking and then complaining about it is a bit like going to a nudist beach and complaining that there are people wandering around naked!

[KittyGlitter]

I just think it's a shame that our social lives have to suffer because of it. I love music, therefore I love clubs but on numerous occasions I've had to leave early because of the smoke. A few of my friends smoke - of course they smoke when they go out and as the law stands they are more than entitled to do that. So as things currently are, I would have to sit on my own in a non-smoking pub and my friends would be in a smoking pub!

[LeMarchand]

So are you saying that your friends should change their ways to suit you?

[KittyGlitter]

No, I'm not telling them to change their ways. You said that non-smokers can go to non-smoking pubs but it's just not workable as you can't segregate people - people mix with smokers and non-smokers alike. I don't want to turn down friendships with people just because they smoke.

[LeMarchand]

KG: so if whether a pub is smokey is less important than who's in it, why the fuss?

[Harri2000]

Walking in town with my two year old in a pram, quite busy. Suddenly she starts to scream I stop and look down, find she is holding her cheek. When I check her cheek, it has a very red spot on it and ash on her shoulder.

We had been walking behind a couple of smokers and as one had flicked her fag the end had obviously come off and hit my child in the face.

This is just one scenario I would like not to be able to happen and so fully support a total and utter blanket ban.
My child will now live her whole life with a mark on her face because of someone else's stupidity and ignorance. Accident or not it is utterly unacceptable to expect other people to abide with the consequences of your actions.

[Gef]

Well said (several times) LeMarchand. I agree with smoking bans on public transport - everyone has to use them. However, no-one is going to force a non-smoker to go into a pub which allows smoking.

Kitty you think it is a shame because your (non-smoking) social life has to suffer. It's your choice. What choice will your friends have if a total smoking ban is implemented.

By the way, crisps, nut, pork scratchings and even pickled eggs have always been non-food items as far as food and hygene legislation is concerned.

[Otrere]

Whatever happened to freedom of choice?

[Harri2000]

Freedom of choice is such a fickle thing even to those who fully support it. Put two teenage girls on a park bench, one sat with a pack of 20 B&H smoking her head off and the other with a razor blade cutting small marks into her arms, self harming.

Which do you help or does anyone try to stop? The girl slightly bleeding that will ultimately only be left with scars on her arms or the girl that is giving herself a terminal disease.