Latest on the smoking situation

[Loosehead]

Just seen the news. Pubs that sell food: no smoking; pubs that don't/private clubs: up to them and even that will take years. I just think they've missed an opportunity to follow suit with Ireland here. In poll after poll 70%+ of the public agreed with a total ban so what's the governement afraid of? I just dispair at this dithering, ban this disgusting habit in public places now! Thoughts please.

[Alan2]

Why don't you just stay in! (and no i am not a smoker)

[MrsT]

Very constructive Alan, what's your other dendron doing?

[Alan2]

Alan2 if you don't mind

[Dakota]

They are afraid of the consequences I mentioned in my thread down there *points to a few threads down*

I think that they know that by banning outright will eventually lead to an economic disaster

Just my opinion, please don't hit me :)

[sandbach99]

I agree a total ban is sensible especially as both Irelands, Scotland and possibly Wales will be smoke free, why should England be different?.

Out of curiosity will pubs that sell crisps, peanuts, pork scratchings etc be classed as selling food or will these products suddenly become non-food items, or will the smoking allowed establishments have to stop selling these products, and loose the profit.

If these products become non-food items the dieticians won't be able to say they are bad for you don't eat them, maybe something good will come out of this crazy law

[Loosehead]

I accept your points about drinking 10ClarionSt but for me the overriding point is that people drinking do not go around the pub tipping there beer down other peoples throats. Smokers fill the air with their carcinogens and the rest of us have no choice except to (thanks Alan) not go out. If I went into a pub with an aerosol spray of cyanide, benzine etc and started spraying it about I think I'd be breaking a law of some sort, why is it legal for smokers to do it?

[maggie01]

Why not mention Roy Castle. He died of passive smoking caused from working in clubs where people smoked.

[maggie01]

Just read what you said about Roy Castle in the other post. You say there was no proof that was how he died but no one has said otherwise. If he didn't smoke himself then surely there must be some proof in that

[Loosehead]

I've said I accept your points about alcohol and even if passive smoking is not as bad as made out I'm referring to the disgusting smell and general filth, I'm talking about sore eyes and throat and about reeking of the stuff when I leave the pub. You are correct with your observations about booze but that's not what I'm asking about. There are lots of areas that need looking at I'm not talking about those either. I never said you agreed with smoking I'm just trying to get you back on the point of the question. Tell you what you start a thread about booze and I'll join in ok?

[Buddy]

What about the rights of the non-smokers who in general have put up with this for centuries.

The Government are just a bunch of pussies trying to apease everyone.I have said before - there is no blanket ban.You can still pollute your own home.Not such a nice thought is it?

They should have just bit the bullet and banned it totally.I stopped 3yrs ago and it really is no big deal - except I now realise what I inflicted on non-smokers for all the years I did smoke and I am ashamed at my selfishness.I even had the audacity to smoke in non-smokers households because they were too polite to object.

[january_bug]

The cigarette in its modern form has, I believe, been around for decades, rather than centuries.

There are PLENTY of non-smoking pubs around, or pubs with non-smoking rooms.

And, as 10CS says, if you ask a smoker to move, most will. So instead of whinging about it on here, why not politely ask people!? I suggest not calling them disgusting during the course of the conversation though. But a polite request goes a long way.

If they allow smoking in private memebers' clubs, you just watch a vast majority of nightclubs and pubs in this country become private members. My bar at uni was a private members. It's a brilliant use of a legal loophole. The government knows exactly what it's doing (*feels this dawn on her as she types*). They're making the policy to passify the anti-smoking brigade (who appear at times to be more interested in criticising and preaching, than of thinking of practical ways to enjoy a smoke free night out), yet it will allow publicans the right to continue accomodating their smoking clientelle. You might not like it, but it's cunning!

[january_bug]

PS, God help me, I'm about to defend 10CS!! I don't think his arguement was as simplistic as suggesting that drinkers pour their alcohol down the throats of tee-totallers! The externalities from drinking are widespread and significant and include:

The cost of extra police on duty at the weekends.
The costs to shops of cleaning thier doorways of urine and vomit every Saturday and Sunday morning.
The costs to the NHS of dealing with people who can't hold their drink, or the people who get into drunken fights.
Vandalised property.
"Older" people who would like to go out on a Saturday night becoming afraid and so staying at home.
These are all negative externalities caused by drinking. Externalities that the rest of us simply can avoid the costs of. By CHOOSING to sit in a smokey pub, you only increase the risk of contracting a smoking related disease, and the strain of showering and cleaning clothes is significantly less than the costs that society bears because of excessive drinking. Smokers pay enough tax on their cigarettes and other smoking materials to cover the costs of the treatment of smoking related diseases and are just as likely as a non-smoker to get hit by a bus. Sadly, smoking does not make you invinsible to all other causes of death.

[january_bug]

My second post WAS neatly in bullet points, but when I had to split it in two, I lost the formatting and forgot to correct it. I'm sure it still reads ok. Sorry about that though. :-)

[Loosehead]

I've already said 3 times I agree with the alcohol argument and I was using the "pouring beer down throats" as a parallel to what is effectively happenning to passive smokers not the cornerstone of my thoughts on alcohol. I also said that the booze and other things are another discussion NOT this one. As one who picks up so readily on this sort of thing JB I'm a little suprised to see you do it yourself! I do of course admire your's and 10CS's attempt to steer the argument onto another subject.

[Buddy]

Well Jan-Bug that is a first for you I have to say.Being pedantic about the length of time smoking has been around.Does it matter really?If I could be bothered (I am sure you will tho!!) I would check when it was first introduced into these shores - decades - dont think so.I for the life of me cant see what the problem is having been on both sides.Surely the non-smokers now have rights.As I have pointed out before it is not a total ban - just in public places - what is the bid deal.Janbug - lets not enter into a personal debate cos we are only voicing our own opinions.

[Buddy]

Wee p.s for Jan-Bug as you corrected me today - I personally dont go for this but here goes-its pacify not passifyLOL

Oh God what I have I let myself in for- have to get a spellcheck!!! Just a wee lighthearted joke!!

[Betty Boop x]

I am so glad they are finally banning smoking in pubs that sell food, rather than having 'smoking' and 'non smoking' areas in pub. As the smoke obviously still travels to the non 'smoking area'. It makes no sense.

This quote i read somewhere sums it up well:

'Having smoking and non smoking areas in a pub/resturant is like having urinating and non urinating areas in a swimming pool.'

I am a non smoker and work in a pub and although i don't like smoking, i accept that people will be smoking when drinking in there.

However i cannot stand it when people come to the bar to get a drink and they are smoking. Then they either blow the smoke in my direction, while telling me their order or put their still lit cigarette on the bar with the smoke going all over me and i can feel myself breathing it in.

I find this extremly inconsiderate and will always say something to the person if they do this. I won't be rude, but i will simply point out that i would prefer it if they didnt smoke while i serve them. If people want to smoke that is up to them but it is not fair for someone to smoke while being served. I find it very rude and i'm sure most smokers would agree with that. So smokers please finish your cigarettes before going to the bar, if you don't already do so.

I don't know what will happen about total bans or smoking rooms but i am at least glad that smoking will now be banned where food is served.

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