It's A Lot Closer Than Switzerland. So Do You Think It's A Good Idea?

[youngmafbog]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5525059/Suicide-clinics-legal-Guernsey.html

[naomi24]

bhg481, //I would absolutely trust my daughter to make the decision that she believed I would take, if I were able. //

You are able. Leave instructions. I have.

[Jahulaye]

“There is an old saying - when in a hole you should not dig deeper.”

And there’s another saying that when threads start derailing then let’s get it back on track instead of jumping on what may or maybe not be a grammatical error”

Now let’s get this “train” heading in the right direction shall we.

[New Judge]

"Now let’s get this “train” heading in the right direction shall we."

It was heading perfectly until you started suggesting that patients who are suffering should be kept alive so that they may be "guinea pigs". Then you suggested that you did no such thing.

[sunny-dave]

Exactly NJ - we are on the same page in the hymnal ...

... and before you mutter 'derailment again' J, I refer you to my post at 16:11 which I think did contribute to the discussion of the OP

[Jahulaye]

Not guilty judge.

[pixie374]

To answer your question, juhulaye, yes, that does sometimes happen.

[Jahulaye]

Thank you pixie as I had a sneaky suspicion that it does from what I know about pharmaceutical companies and their “alleged” underhanded tactics ;)

[bhg481]

As the person who first raised an eyebrow at Jahulaye's post, can I throw in my two pennorth. It's very easy to misinterpret the written word since no tone of voice or facial expressions are there to add to the words. Jahulaye explained that she didn't imply that people should be kept alive just for the doctors to experiment on. I'm quite happy to accept that explanation.

[Jahulaye]

Why thank you bhg. Now I hope we can all move forward as a community and leave the negativity behind us.

[sunny-dave]

I've worked at various levels in the NHS (in both clinical and managerial environments) and have friends/relatives who work in critical and palliative care.

I have no love for Big Pharma, but I have never seen or heard any suggestion that terminally ill patients are being used as involuntary Guinea Pigs for new treatments (be that drugs or surgery).

There are indeed cases where a speculative therapy is used - but that is only after full consent is obtained - in fact it is often the patient who is the most anxious for the trial. But that's miles away from the repulsive suggestion made by Jahulaye that medical professionals are involved in some sort of underhand experimentation.

[jackthehat]

https://thumbsnap.com/FFfMYlGk

[naomi24]

No surprise.

[Jahulaye]

“But that's miles away from the repulsive suggestion made by Jahulaye that medical professionals are involved in some sort of underhand experimentation.”

Obviously with permission but badgering or throwing hopes or medical jargon at bewildered relatives at a weak time which from a moral perspective is truly horrendous.

Bhg understood and pixie affirmed my suspicions and confirmed that it DOES happen.

[pixie374]

She didn't say "involuntary" Dave. I'm not judging either way what she meant- I often phrase things very badly myself!

[sunny-dave]

Rubbish - utter drivel and a slander on medics working in end-of-life care.

I know you're a conspiracy theorist by preference - but I'd like to hear you say that without the cloak of anonymity and with a possibility of being sued.

[sunny-dave]

That was to J, not you Pixie

[jno]

SD, I can see no suggestion whatever in jahulaye’s post that treatments were to be carried out on unwilling patients, or that there was any conspiracy among doctors to do this.

I don’t know why people are so anxious to read things that just aren’t there. She asked a question; if the answer is “No” just say so. Alternatively, if patients do agree to try experimental therapies, “Yes”. Neither implies any ethical failings.

[DTCwordfan]

free sweater with every certified stiff?

[sunny-dave]

jno - I think saying that medical professionals are

"badgering or throwing hopes or medical jargon at bewildered relatives at a weak time"

is slanderous - and rubbish.

I only read what is there - and it stinks to high heaven

SD

[jno]

That was a different post, and seems to be confirmed by kvalidir’s experience at 9.14, though you may never have witnessed it yourself. I can only agree that kvalidir’s account is disturbing.

As for the earlier post, you’ve assumed that a question was rhetorical, when there was no evidence for this and despite the fact that the poster clarified her own opinion at once when asked to do so. People shouldn’t be so ready to attribute bad faith to others.