Five car thieves killed whilst driving a stolen car.

[Ding-Dong]

Don't know whether this news has gone countrywide, but dahn sarf over the weekend five people (15 to 16 year olds) were killed whilst racing along in a stolen car (they all knew it was stolen and were there voluntarilly). Now call me harsh, but I really couldn't possibly care any less if I tried - I feel sorry for the families, but couldn't give tinker's cuss about the people who died, as they died in the furtherance of a crime.

So, the question is, am I a heartless uncaring bar steward? I suspect I probably am, but I genuinely can't conjure up any sympathy at all.

[Ding-Dong]

JB - I'm here and have been following the posts. What is it you want me to comment on?

[Ward-Minter]

surfer mike love it just makes you perhaps more compassionate than me, not a wimp.

I, myself fail to respect human life if the the life has no respect for others.

[libertie]

Like to say I'm surprised at some of the posts on here but I'm not! Right or wrong I think it's a dreadful waste of young lives two of whom were only 14 and I find the total lack of sympathy on here by some people appalling!!

[Buddy]

My daughter was wayward for a while - and she comes from a very loving caring family.I dont think I am wrong in saying she would have been daft enough to jump in to a stolen car at that time in order to 'fit in' I believe this happened in the early hours of the morning.Now as a parent even although she is doing well,doesnt give me any problems I insist on the time she has to be in - usually before midnight at weekends much to her chagrin and check if she is staying over.

Did the parents know or care where they were?

An addendum here the police have yet again been damned if they do and damned if they dont.They are in a lose/lose situation yet again

[mycatis]

Couldn't agree more libertie (and surfer mike). I'm horrified at some of these posts! Since when does doing something wrong (and I agree stealing a car is wrong) automatically mean that these kids deserve to die?? I mean, my God, we aren't talking about prison, curfews or ASBO's here,we are talking about 5 DEAD teenagers.

[Chessman]

I think i'd better explain, not that it makes much difference. If someone steals a gun, and kills someone by accident, is that manslaughter or murder? methinks it would be the first, although it should be the second, sure, there are other legal aspects to it, now, when you own a car, you want to look after it, so you drive carefully, and the chances of you killing someone are minimal. When you steal a car, your not only driving illegally, you probably don't know the highway code, so straight away you dangerous driving, with more chance of killing than othersI stand by what I said, if a Joyrider kills someone, its not murder, but it should be.

Let the flack begin.

[undercovers]

* WHIMPERING LIBERAL WARNING* All Mail readers may as well look away now...

I think its sad - these crims deserved prison or community service not death - your posts seem to imply that if they hadn't killed themselves (accidently) you would have executed them personally. I'd ask all of you who think its great these people died if you would have the same opinion if you were the first to arrive on the scene and had to watch them die before you... would you tell them they deserved it? or maybe you would ... if i find out where they are buried i'll let you know as i'm sure you are just itching for a bit of grave dancing

[Chessman]

undercovers, While I think its really sad that they died, its sad when anyone dies, they had stolen a car, and in this instance, no-one else was hurt, but look back over the years at how many needless deaths and broken hearted families have been caused by joyriders. I think, like most things, you have to try to put it on a personal level, eg, what would your reaction be if a loved one had been killed by a joyrider?.

[cherrybomb]

undercovers: How would you feel being first on this scene: Watching a pensioner who had been beaten to a pulp and left to die in agony by teenage thugs (male/female) because they wanted money (most likely for drugs) and he/she had dared to try and protect themselves and their possessions.

At least two of these teenagers could have grown up to be a threat to the public in one way or another and the others should have chosen their friends more carefully.

[Gef]

I find some of the answers here incredible. Would the responses have been the same if the driver had been 17, just passed the test and borrowed his well heeled Mum's/Dad's flashy car?

[maggie01]

Gef No I think people would probably see it as an unfortunate accident unles an innocent victim was involved. People I feel are just sick of all the crime and then when something happens to these people you are supposed to feel sorry for them. Ok you could say its a crime to take your mother or fathers car but it is not quite the same.

[cherrybomb]

Gef: If this hypothetical 17yr old who had saved his money, learnt to drive with a proper driving school, passed his theory and practical test's, practised while learning with his well heeled mother or father in the family car, immediately on passing his test stolen his neighbours flashy car persuaded 4 of his friends to go racing at high speeds with him and crashed killing him and his friends then my response would be exactly the same.

[surfer mike]

Pensioner beaten to death what the hell has that got anything to do with this incident..it seems to me people are venting their fury about crime on these kids...

At the end of the day right or wrong, five children are dead,all under 16 including two 14 year olds, so i don't find this a time to rejoice and sound damn right bloodthirsty about it as others seem to...

[cherrybomb]

surfermike: I know that It has got nothing to do with the incident in question. I was answering a post by Gef and I used the word hypothetical to illustrate this. I had already given my opinon to the original question in an earlier post. With you scoring such a high mark in your citizenship test and assuming you got question one correct. Must agree that these teenagers were not being good citizen's nor were they being raised to be good citizen's.

You must also be aware that everyone is entitled to their opinions, even if they differ from yours.

[cherrybomb]

surfer mike: Sorry got confused about the post you were getting your sandals in a flap about. undercovers had asked us to put ourselves in a hypothetical situation so I answered hypothetically.

Goodness I seemed to have typed that word non-stop.

[Ward-Minter]

I have absolutely no emotion about the deaths of these kids whatsoever. I really hoped they actually died in agony.

Teach the little scallywags wont it.

[Trotbot]

I'm quite scared by some of these posts. I appreciate people don't condone crime, and that sometimes there is a culture of protecting the guilty.

However, there but for the Grace of God I go, and I suspect many of us. As a kid, I did silly things. Climbed a castle once at midnight. If I fell and died, would I suffer the vitriol in evidence here? Young and foolish in the pursuit of crime.

I have no problem if people are not sympathetic, there are more deserving causes. No-one can dictate personal priorities. However, some of the more extreme comments reflect poorly on the authors.

[january_bug]

Ding-Dong - I was hoping you might pass comment on my thoughts about feeling sorry for dead people. The thread has wandered a bit from that now, but that was, after all, your initial point: that you could feel sorry for the families, but not for dead people.

[Ding-Dong]

j-b, I've re-read the third para of your original post, and presumably you are asking me to validate your superior intellect by you pointing out that it is "STUPID" to feel sorry for dead people.

Despite the fact that everybody else understood my point, you are of course 'technically' correct (a phrase I particularly loathe as it is often used by the pedants of the world), & therefore please feel free to take this post as the validation you appear to require.

Well done you.

Gef - that has to be one of the most irrelavent posts I think I've ever read on this site: if the 17 year old in question was licensed, insured & had permission, then it would've been a tragic accident: these people stole the car, were unlicensed and uninsured, its like comparing apples with pears.

Grauniad Readers Beware the following;

I was no angel as a teenager, but I would never have contemplated jumping into a stolen car - it would not have even crossed my mind, & inevitably people tend to judge the actions of others by their own standards - yes subjectivitivty shouldn't be a factor, but inevitably it is - which is why we put our faith in judges & the legal system which we hope will be objective - and because I am being subjective & judging these people by my standards, I really couldn't give a crap they are dead, & would go as far to say they deserved it - if they hadn't stolen somebody elses property, they would still be alive today to frighten old ladies & get 14 year old girls pregnant. And whilst I do feel sorry for the parents (because I am a parent myself), having seen a number of them interviewed, I can't help thinking they deserve to take some of the blame as well - after all, they were the ones that managed to raise the little thugs.