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Society & Culture12 mins ago
Black People Now Need To Prove They Are Allowed In First Class Carriages
Why do black people in first class get challenged, but not white passengers?
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Furthermore, why would they be checked by a waiter, rather than a ticket inspector?
Was Virgin Trains right to apologise?
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Furthermore, why would they be checked by a waiter, rather than a ticket inspector?
Was Virgin Trains right to apologise?
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Gromit, I'm saying I doubt the accuracy of the story as reported. Since 'Lewis Smith MBE' (although what his MBE has to do with it I don't know) cannot possibly be the only black passenger ever to travel first class on Virgin rail, I think something must have happened to prompt this. As for the manager's alleged comment, no manager would exacerbate a situation by elaborating in such a manner. I think there is more to this than initially meets the eye.
// said that he was not even allowed to check passengers' tickets //
some staff of the appropriate gra or length of service from BR days, and officers of current franchisees are entitled to first class travel. that entitlement doesn't however extend to free refreshments. usually the train host logs where everyone is and tickets don't need to be checked, but not always, and the servers may need to check eligibility to receive their wares if the occupier of a certain seat isn't on their list.
some staff of the appropriate gra or length of service from BR days, and officers of current franchisees are entitled to first class travel. that entitlement doesn't however extend to free refreshments. usually the train host logs where everyone is and tickets don't need to be checked, but not always, and the servers may need to check eligibility to receive their wares if the occupier of a certain seat isn't on their list.
“Yes, a waiter had no authority to challenge him or anyone else.”
In common with almost all train operators, Virgin provides “at seat” food and drink service only in its First Class carriages. On less busy services (a rarity these days) they will occasionally allow Standard Class ticket holders occupy a First Class seat and take a meal. I have travelled First Class on Virgin quite a bit and have seen people simply pitch up to try to take advantage of this service by simply sitting down without first asking the catering manager or waiter. They have been asked to leave when they failed to produce (for the waiter or catering manager) a First Class ticket.
The Network Rail Conditions of Carriage say “You must show and, if asked to do so by the staff of a Train Company or its agent, hand over for inspection a valid ticket and any relevant Railcard, photocard or other form of personal identification…” Nothing about it being only guards, conductors or train managers. Simply “staff”. It is quite obvious that to control the seating in a First Class carriage where meals are being served, the staff there will sometimes need to inspect tickets.
Anyway, as usual, fuss over nothing (about which we probably only have half the story at best). Mr Smith showed his ticket and life went on. Except that he had to explain the minutiae of his tedious life to his Twitter disciples.
In common with almost all train operators, Virgin provides “at seat” food and drink service only in its First Class carriages. On less busy services (a rarity these days) they will occasionally allow Standard Class ticket holders occupy a First Class seat and take a meal. I have travelled First Class on Virgin quite a bit and have seen people simply pitch up to try to take advantage of this service by simply sitting down without first asking the catering manager or waiter. They have been asked to leave when they failed to produce (for the waiter or catering manager) a First Class ticket.
The Network Rail Conditions of Carriage say “You must show and, if asked to do so by the staff of a Train Company or its agent, hand over for inspection a valid ticket and any relevant Railcard, photocard or other form of personal identification…” Nothing about it being only guards, conductors or train managers. Simply “staff”. It is quite obvious that to control the seating in a First Class carriage where meals are being served, the staff there will sometimes need to inspect tickets.
Anyway, as usual, fuss over nothing (about which we probably only have half the story at best). Mr Smith showed his ticket and life went on. Except that he had to explain the minutiae of his tedious life to his Twitter disciples.
I suspect this is all chip on shoulder related.
Unfortunately even in a suit I look like a hod carrier or on my way to Court but I had a good job and travelled first class. On many occasions I have been asked for my ticket from the 'waiter' in order to claim my free (included) beverage and on many occasion I noted I was the only one asked.
On another occasion I was coming back from a United game in London nd as ususal myself and my friend trvelled first class. Sat in the carriage at Waterloo a Black guard came up and demanded we move. No asking for tickets, no request as to why there just "move". We refused and he went to get another guard who, first thing, asked for tickets which we had and supplied.
So, was this racism displayed against me and my friend since no one else was asked.
As a foot note being (the only one) asked for ticket has occured to me in the following countries (whilst on business) USA, Germany, France, Belgium.
I too have been asked for proof of room for breakfast in a Hilton, The Sheridan and a Crowne Plazza.
Unfortunately even in a suit I look like a hod carrier or on my way to Court but I had a good job and travelled first class. On many occasions I have been asked for my ticket from the 'waiter' in order to claim my free (included) beverage and on many occasion I noted I was the only one asked.
On another occasion I was coming back from a United game in London nd as ususal myself and my friend trvelled first class. Sat in the carriage at Waterloo a Black guard came up and demanded we move. No asking for tickets, no request as to why there just "move". We refused and he went to get another guard who, first thing, asked for tickets which we had and supplied.
So, was this racism displayed against me and my friend since no one else was asked.
As a foot note being (the only one) asked for ticket has occured to me in the following countries (whilst on business) USA, Germany, France, Belgium.
I too have been asked for proof of room for breakfast in a Hilton, The Sheridan and a Crowne Plazza.
youngmafbog
//I suspect this is all chip on shoulder related.//
That’s the white person equivalent of shouting ‘Racism’.
When black people attempt to speak about racist incidents, there is a subset of white people who shriek, “You’ve got a chip on your shoulder.”
It’s a way that some white people shut down the discussion.
It’s the 21st century version of saying that some black are too ‘uppity’.
//I suspect this is all chip on shoulder related.//
That’s the white person equivalent of shouting ‘Racism’.
When black people attempt to speak about racist incidents, there is a subset of white people who shriek, “You’ve got a chip on your shoulder.”
It’s a way that some white people shut down the discussion.
It’s the 21st century version of saying that some black are too ‘uppity’.
Nothing to do with white privilege, SP.
As youngmaf has explained, all sorts of people of all colours creeds and castes, get asked for their tickets when travelling on on a train. If passengers think they are being "singled out" for any particular reason that's their privilege - whatever colour they are. You show your ticket and that's the end of it. If Mr Smith wanted to turn such a simple and inoffensive request "political" (as he suggested the incident had become) and then broadcast the details to a quarter of a million people then I reckon he's got too much time on his hands.
As youngmaf has explained, all sorts of people of all colours creeds and castes, get asked for their tickets when travelling on on a train. If passengers think they are being "singled out" for any particular reason that's their privilege - whatever colour they are. You show your ticket and that's the end of it. If Mr Smith wanted to turn such a simple and inoffensive request "political" (as he suggested the incident had become) and then broadcast the details to a quarter of a million people then I reckon he's got too much time on his hands.
sp, it doesn’t go back to anything. My response was to Gromit who implied that because Lewis Smith has been awarded an MBE I was wrong to question his version of events. Personally I don't believe such an award guarantees that the recipient is squeaky clean, but there you are.
//When black people attempt to speak about racist incidents, there is a subset of white people who shriek, “You’ve got a chip on your shoulder.”//
But some black people do have a chip on their shoulder. Take the heading you chose for this thread for example. “Black People Now Need To Prove They Are Allowed In First Class Carriages”
That simply isn’t true, is it. They don't.
//When black people attempt to speak about racist incidents, there is a subset of white people who shriek, “You’ve got a chip on your shoulder.”//
But some black people do have a chip on their shoulder. Take the heading you chose for this thread for example. “Black People Now Need To Prove They Are Allowed In First Class Carriages”
That simply isn’t true, is it. They don't.
SP, did you read my post at all?
I have just been picked out - by a black man again - because I obviously have a look. Oddly I had only been joking with the chap in Makkah that I had better have a receipt because I get stopped which he thought was odd. And then it happens. Was the black man racist for picking me a white middle age man out?
Bottom line is that if you fit the picture of what someone thinks is a criminal (clearly I do) then you will get stopped, black, white purpple or whatever. And, the person stopping will be Black, white or purple or whatever.
I have just been picked out - by a black man again - because I obviously have a look. Oddly I had only been joking with the chap in Makkah that I had better have a receipt because I get stopped which he thought was odd. And then it happens. Was the black man racist for picking me a white middle age man out?
Bottom line is that if you fit the picture of what someone thinks is a criminal (clearly I do) then you will get stopped, black, white purpple or whatever. And, the person stopping will be Black, white or purple or whatever.
I think this claim to victimhood and its implicit reinforcement of the "white privilege" myth is all part of the rehabilitation program following his recent disgrace. Mr. Louis Smith MBE is trying very hard to be accepted back into polite society.
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// Gromit implied that because Lewis Smith has been awarded an MBE I was wrong to question his version of events. //
No I did not. I used MBE because that was in his Twitter name. Like one would use Sir Richard Branson or sir Alex Ferguson. I did not for one second imply that because he was honoured that his version of events could not be questioned.
No I did not. I used MBE because that was in his Twitter name. Like one would use Sir Richard Branson or sir Alex Ferguson. I did not for one second imply that because he was honoured that his version of events could not be questioned.
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