Novichok-Poison, Could It Be Russia's Fault Yet Again?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5919211/Amesbury-couple-exposed-Novichok-poison-fight-lives.html

[Zacs-Master]

Nice.

[ichkeria]

The scary Maria Zakharova has said that sooner or later Britain will have to apologise.
Beyond surreal

[ichkeria]

Victoria Skripal’s on some russian chat show tonight

[Quizmonster]

Ichkeria,
“Only a very specialised govt funded laboratory could have produced this substance.”
We’ve got one of them; it’s at Porton Down, just along the road from Salisbury.
“Why on earth would they bother anyway?”
If they wanted to put Russia in a bad light and that certainly seems to have worked.
Yet again, I am not saying Russia is innocent and nor am I saying the British government is guilty; I’m merely pointing out that – until such time as some individual is charged and tried, even in camera, under normal British legal rules – we simply do not know!

[NoMercy]

Could it be Russia's fault again?

Indirectly, yes. Whether this was a planned, targeted attack or an act of revenge for the response to the initial incident remains to be seen but I firmly believe it was Russia who brought the deadly nerve agent Novichok to our streets in the first place.

[scooping]

What puzzles me is why the Russian government, its agents or supporters, would use Novichok rather than a bullet, a shove into traffic or a more common toxic agent. In that case, the attempted assassinations would not easily be traced back to the Russians. Using Novichok merely pointed the finger directly back to them.
Secondly, the Ruskies denied producing the nerve agent yet one chap working for the regime claimed to have produced the stuff at government labs. Why he would admit that is beyond me. I wonder if he's dead yet.
Third, 200 journalists and Putin opponents have been killed over the past five years. So those apologists for Putin have one heck of a case defending this vile man.

[NoMercy]

//Third, 200 journalists and Putin opponents have been killed over the past five years.//

Prosecutions for which are incredibly scarce ^^^

Amy Knight's "Orders To Kill" is well worth a read.

[cassa333]

Kim Jong Un (or however you spell it) is probably laughing all the way to his stockpile of.....

Perhaps this couple are what is known as ‘unknown’ agents and they misshandled the stuff or are on a suiside pack sort of th8ng.

[ichkeria]

What is more likely: that a Soviet developed nerve agent was used by Russians or that Porton Down for some reason vaguely to do with ‘blackening the name of Russia blah blah blah’ cooked up a version themselves. There’s having an open mind and being perverse.
As for ‘why use this particular method’ well that is what they do: they do it because they can. It’s a signature act as a warning to others.
Not only have Russian tv been plastering Yulya’s cousin all over prime time tv but they’be has Sergei’s aged mother filmed in her bed implying that they are victims of wicked Britain. The poor lady is incapable of speaking for herself. Utterly contemptible

[Quizmonster]

I certainly might be accused of “having an open mind” in matters of guilt and innocence and…guess what…I maintain that until due legal process convinces me one way or the other as to where these two opposites lie.
In the case of the Skripals and this latest novichok manifestation, there has BEEN no legal process whatsoever. Accordingly, my “openness of mind” is unswayed in either direction and will remain so no matter what other Ichkerian interventions arise in the matter of “which is more likely”!
If one was an old woman, expert in herbs and a cat-owner, people once believed that was sufficient to make it more than likely that one was a witch. We’ve moved on now and find probability of guilt insufficient…well at least I have!

[ichkeria]

What legal process are you expecting?
In the unlikely event that a suspect is fingered its a certainty the russians won’t cooperate anyway. A lot of the evidence as often in such cases appears to be secret which of course gives the conspiracy theorists a whiff of something ...

[ichkeria]

The fact that we don’t appear to have video evidence of Putin smearing a funny gel on someone’s knob is not a reason for our government not to act.
Of course everyone else can speculate ad nauseam

[Peter Pedant]

// I certainly might be accused of “having an open mind” in matters of guilt and innocence and…guess what…//

guess what - this is complete and utter rubbish

so Germany didnt invade Poland in 1939 ? well there was no case about that !
and America didnt bomb the crap out of the Japanesse in 1945 - no case not even a hint of war crime then
or ELizabeth II didnt accede to the throne in 1952

so what if there is no court case ?
Nocicoks werent used unless a judge ( or even a jury eek ¬ ) says they were ?

language truth and logic are not prisoners of a legal system

oops ! I am sorry but .... language truth and logic are not prisoners of a legal system

[Peter Pedant]

// We’ve got one of them; it’s at Porton Down, just along the road from Salisbury. //

I am sorry - but - having worked there ( MRE but nearer than anyone else ) no they dont .... churn out chemical agents and havent for fifty years or so .....

( altho I agree - oops my ability to synthesise chemical agent showing again ) those hanged Japanese thingeys churned out sarin ( an acknowledged impossibility apparently) using a dustbin and bottle of turps out the back )

[Quizmonster]

In response to a claim that a chemical factory capable of producing novichok would "have to be" one funded by a government, I simply said WE had such a factory. I said nothing whatsoever about Porton Down actually doing any such thing.
There is endless evidence, Peter Pedant, of the Queen's accession and of Germany and America's wartime bombings. We don't need a court case to prove any of these. I can actually vouch for one of these personally, given that such a bomb landed less than 100 yards from where my baby head lay sleeping. I woke up eventually; others nearby never woke up again!
Given the indisputable fact that the method of producing novichok is in the public domain, on what grounds do you imagine only one organisation could have made the batch responsible for Wiltshire's woes?
I believe Russia is vastly more likely to be the culprit than anyone else, but I have already explained what I think of the "Likelihood Theory" of guilt. It's just not enough, mate! (I'll leave it there.)