How it Works1 min ago
What Help Will A General Election Be?
71 Answers
In all this brexit shambles I regularly hear a call for a general election Surely that would simply un focus us from the immediate task. Brexit/remain is a cross party issue so surely a GE would simply obfuscate further. Dump the PM by all means and introduce a brexiteer to tell the EU how we are leaving but stop all this GE cobras.
Answers
“…and Theresa May was thrown in at the deep end.” No she wasn’t. She jumped in both feet first, dismissing Andrea Leadsom from the contest in the process. “…why? what would happen if UK/ROI/NI did nothing at all?” I’ve asked that question directly on here and was dismissed as a nutcase, 3Ts. An MP (whose name escapes me) asked the same...
13:29 Sat 17th Nov 2018
Customs rules change constantly -- because, after all, new products are consistently being invented or put on the market -- so, in the event that the UK did nothing, then in order to maintain the frictionless border, the UK would continually have to update its Customs rules to match those of the EU exactly. That would amount to remaining a de facto member of the CU whilst having no influence whatsoever over its rules.
This is, incidentally, the same thing (effectively) as in the draft Withdrawal Deal Text, but the latter has the added bonus that we don't also force massive disruption elsewhere.
This is, incidentally, the same thing (effectively) as in the draft Withdrawal Deal Text, but the latter has the added bonus that we don't also force massive disruption elsewhere.
“…and Theresa May was thrown in at the deep end.”
No she wasn’t. She jumped in both feet first, dismissing Andrea Leadsom from the contest in the process.
“…why? what would happen if UK/ROI/NI did nothing at all?”
I’ve asked that question directly on here and was dismissed as a nutcase, 3Ts. An MP (whose name escapes me) asked the same question in Parliament (presumably he is similarly a nutcase) and he received no reply. That was probably because that is the answer – nothing would happen. Only the EU wants to see border arrangements enforced in Ireland and they have neither the authority nor the resources to do it.
“Customs rules change constantly -- because, after all, new products are consistently being invented or put on the market -- so, in the event that the UK did nothing, then in order to maintain the frictionless border, the UK would continually have to update its Customs rules to match those of the EU exactly.”
And what if it didn’t (see above)? How do non-EU countries who have no trade agreement with the EU (e.g. that minnow amongst global traders, the USA) manage to cope with this? Do all their goods get checked by a man with a clipboard on arrival into the EU? Possibly not. The border issue has been weaponised by the EU and our pathetic negotiating team have succumbed to their ploy.
“This is, incidentally, the same thing (effectively) as in the draft Withdrawal Deal Text, but the latter has the added bonus that we don't also force massive disruption elsewhere.”
The Withdrawal deal also has another “added bonus” in that the customs arrangements cannot be ended without the EU’s agreement. I know of no other international treaty (including the EU’s own Lisbon Treaty) that cannot be ended with an appropriate period of notice from one of the participants. For that reason alone the deal should be dismissed out of hand. Mrs May’s deal sells the country down the river and smacks of a desperate Prime Minister who will capitulate to anything rather than see the country suffer some disruption. The UK is not that desperate and should not be held to ransom by foreign officials.
Latest betting on the next PM (Paddy Power):
Jeremy Corbyn 9/2
Boris Johnson 6/1
Sajid Javid
Dominic Raab 6/1
David Davis 6/1
Michael Gove 8/1
Jacob Rees-Mogg 12/1
Jeremy Hunt 12/1
So, interestingly, they see a General election as being more likely than a change of Tory leadership.
No she wasn’t. She jumped in both feet first, dismissing Andrea Leadsom from the contest in the process.
“…why? what would happen if UK/ROI/NI did nothing at all?”
I’ve asked that question directly on here and was dismissed as a nutcase, 3Ts. An MP (whose name escapes me) asked the same question in Parliament (presumably he is similarly a nutcase) and he received no reply. That was probably because that is the answer – nothing would happen. Only the EU wants to see border arrangements enforced in Ireland and they have neither the authority nor the resources to do it.
“Customs rules change constantly -- because, after all, new products are consistently being invented or put on the market -- so, in the event that the UK did nothing, then in order to maintain the frictionless border, the UK would continually have to update its Customs rules to match those of the EU exactly.”
And what if it didn’t (see above)? How do non-EU countries who have no trade agreement with the EU (e.g. that minnow amongst global traders, the USA) manage to cope with this? Do all their goods get checked by a man with a clipboard on arrival into the EU? Possibly not. The border issue has been weaponised by the EU and our pathetic negotiating team have succumbed to their ploy.
“This is, incidentally, the same thing (effectively) as in the draft Withdrawal Deal Text, but the latter has the added bonus that we don't also force massive disruption elsewhere.”
The Withdrawal deal also has another “added bonus” in that the customs arrangements cannot be ended without the EU’s agreement. I know of no other international treaty (including the EU’s own Lisbon Treaty) that cannot be ended with an appropriate period of notice from one of the participants. For that reason alone the deal should be dismissed out of hand. Mrs May’s deal sells the country down the river and smacks of a desperate Prime Minister who will capitulate to anything rather than see the country suffer some disruption. The UK is not that desperate and should not be held to ransom by foreign officials.
Latest betting on the next PM (Paddy Power):
Jeremy Corbyn 9/2
Boris Johnson 6/1
Sajid Javid
Dominic Raab 6/1
David Davis 6/1
Michael Gove 8/1
Jacob Rees-Mogg 12/1
Jeremy Hunt 12/1
So, interestingly, they see a General election as being more likely than a change of Tory leadership.
Judge: "I’ve asked that question directly on here and was dismissed as a nutcase, 3Ts. An MP (whose name escapes me) asked the same question in Parliament (presumably he is similarly a nutcase) and he received no reply. That was probably because that is the answer – nothing would happen. Only the EU wants to see border arrangements enforced in Ireland and they have neither the authority nor the resources to do it. " - as usual bang on, BA, if the EUSSR want something done let them play silly burgers after we are out. Let's amuse ourselves watching how they get on with trying to resolve NI/ROI issues.
Other countries manage by separate customs arrangements, and as a matter of fact their products *are* checked. Or did you think that, for example, HMRC doesn't check anything about what comes in to our country? By extension the same is true for the EU.
The Irish border *is* an issue, and it's -- well, there's no other way to put it -- ignorance like that shown by NJ that's exposed us to this mess, rather than EU intransigence.
The Irish border *is* an issue, and it's -- well, there's no other way to put it -- ignorance like that shown by NJ that's exposed us to this mess, rather than EU intransigence.
Customs rules change constantly -- because, after all, new products are consistently being invented or put on the market -- so, in the event that the EU did nothing, then in order to maintain the frictionless border, the EU would continually have to update its Customs rules to match those of the UK exactly.
I think some just choose to see issues. If things change all have to react; and if any party simply acts unilaterally then they clearly don't value existing arrangements.
I think some just choose to see issues. If things change all have to react; and if any party simply acts unilaterally then they clearly don't value existing arrangements.
Jim: "Other countries manage by separate customs arrangements, and as a matter of fact their products *are* checked. Or did you think that, for example, HMRC doesn't check anything about what comes in to our country? By extension the same is true for the EU. " - But that's the EU's problem, surely you can see that? It's my problem to secure my front door, not my neighbours. The EU must solve this after we are gone.
"The Irish border *is* an issue, and it's -- well, there's no other way to put it -- ignorance like that shown by NJ that's exposed us to this mess, rather than EU intransigence. " - it's been made an issue by the EU and our wet "negotiators" wore it, it's not a UK problem.
"The Irish border *is* an issue, and it's -- well, there's no other way to put it -- ignorance like that shown by NJ that's exposed us to this mess, rather than EU intransigence. " - it's been made an issue by the EU and our wet "negotiators" wore it, it's not a UK problem.
No. You cannot cause a situation then require other people to solve it because you are either too lazy or too blinkered to recognise the problem. The UK and Republic of Ireland have enjoyed an open border since the two were created, and then both joined the EU (EC as it then was) at the same time, thus bypassing any issues. Now that *we* have chosen to leave, *we* have created the issue. Therefore, *we* cannot escape our responsibilities of solving it.
ok to determine if something is your problem the test is:
What effect will it have on me if I do nothing? - so imagine my roof is leaking, that's my problem, if I do nothing my house will quickly deteriorate, my house not next doors, mine, so I need to fix it. Now let's take what we have learned and apply it to the Irish border. What will happen to the UK if we do nothing about the Irish border? ....gosh, nothing at all! QED not our problem.
What effect will it have on me if I do nothing? - so imagine my roof is leaking, that's my problem, if I do nothing my house will quickly deteriorate, my house not next doors, mine, so I need to fix it. Now let's take what we have learned and apply it to the Irish border. What will happen to the UK if we do nothing about the Irish border? ....gosh, nothing at all! QED not our problem.
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