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What Can Be Done About Climate Change
is it a natural occurrence, after all the climate has changed over billions of years - is this really what we will come to.
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Answers
Kromo; //It's hard to do anything that's carbon-
11:15 Tue 04th Dec 2018
//Anti-Climate Science propaganda is pervasive and infectious, and far more damaging than you give it credit for.//
Not as damaging as the "science" where you start with the conclusion, and bend the data to match.
Science used to be where you carefully assemble the data, check and recheck it, and then put together a theory to explain the data, always bearing in mind that the theory may be wrong.
How do you account for the Medieval Warming Period of some 1.000 years ago?
Glow Bull Warming my foot( other parts of the anatomy are also suitable as an illustration)
It is easier to fool the people than to show them that they are being fooled...…..Phineas Taylor Barnum.
Not as damaging as the "science" where you start with the conclusion, and bend the data to match.
Science used to be where you carefully assemble the data, check and recheck it, and then put together a theory to explain the data, always bearing in mind that the theory may be wrong.
How do you account for the Medieval Warming Period of some 1.000 years ago?
Glow Bull Warming my foot( other parts of the anatomy are also suitable as an illustration)
It is easier to fool the people than to show them that they are being fooled...…..Phineas Taylor Barnum.
// "I wonder if they'll announce it"
They have... //
No, that's just the countdown starting. I'm wondering if in 12 years time they'll announce that we've ACTUALLY tipped, so we can all forget about it, throw a bit more coal on the fire and get on with our lives.
I doubt it. I think that line will just keep getting pushed a few years further on every time we get nearer to it.
They have... //
No, that's just the countdown starting. I'm wondering if in 12 years time they'll announce that we've ACTUALLY tipped, so we can all forget about it, throw a bit more coal on the fire and get on with our lives.
I doubt it. I think that line will just keep getting pushed a few years further on every time we get nearer to it.
Kromo; //It's hard to do anything that's carbon-neutral given the way that our economies have developed.//
That is absolutely true, but there is so much hypocrisy surrounding these jamborees, look at Paris, a huge multi-million dollar fiasco, with people flooding in from all over the planet, self-congratulating, virtue-signalling, and achieving nothing, except perhaps plans for the next junket.
That is absolutely true, but there is so much hypocrisy surrounding these jamborees, look at Paris, a huge multi-million dollar fiasco, with people flooding in from all over the planet, self-congratulating, virtue-signalling, and achieving nothing, except perhaps plans for the next junket.
If we start thinking like that, though, then nobody who exists in a modern economy could possibly say anything about climate change. This is a real problem which needs counteraction. I don't really see how we're going to make any kind of start on that without influential people meeting up to discuss it.
It seems to be an unfortunate by product of the climate change industry that its participants and supporters seem to breed contempt for those who disagree with their views. This sometimes leads to them being rude because they become frustrated when they fail to brow-beat their opponents into submission/agreement. The next stage is to take to insults, usually suggesting that those with opposite views are ignorant. Shame really.
It's hard to keep my temper when faced with such a dismissive and close-minded attitude to the effect that humanity has had on the world.
I'd urge you to give the matter proper and careful consideration -- as you clearly have not yet. I'd also suggest it's ruder, or certainly far more arrogant, to dismiss and ignore the conclusions of those who've made a lifetime and career out of studying this. And, with respect to my frequent sparring partner, NJ, what other description can there be of some of the responses in this thread?
Ignorance, it must be remembered, isn't necessarily an insult; it's sometimes, sadly, accurate.
I'd urge you to give the matter proper and careful consideration -- as you clearly have not yet. I'd also suggest it's ruder, or certainly far more arrogant, to dismiss and ignore the conclusions of those who've made a lifetime and career out of studying this. And, with respect to my frequent sparring partner, NJ, what other description can there be of some of the responses in this thread?
Ignorance, it must be remembered, isn't necessarily an insult; it's sometimes, sadly, accurate.
I consider myself to be... not elite, that's a nonsense.
There are, I suppose you could say, advantages in having had the sort of formal scientific training necessary to understand what defines "good" and "bad" science, on how to interpret data, on how to evaluate models, and so on. It's clearly not a matter of "I know what I'm talking about and you're all stupid", and I regret my tone from yesterday when I essentially said this. But how can this not count for something -- if not from me personally, then from climate scientists as a whole, whose studies can't be conveniently dismissed as political, or conspiratorial, or biased.
This is the anti-intellectual streak that angers me, when with no thought or justification whatsoever people label the whole sphere as garbage; when those same people point-blank refuse to even consider evidence when offered to them. That, frankly, is far ruder than anything I've said on this thread or elsewhere.
There are, I suppose you could say, advantages in having had the sort of formal scientific training necessary to understand what defines "good" and "bad" science, on how to interpret data, on how to evaluate models, and so on. It's clearly not a matter of "I know what I'm talking about and you're all stupid", and I regret my tone from yesterday when I essentially said this. But how can this not count for something -- if not from me personally, then from climate scientists as a whole, whose studies can't be conveniently dismissed as political, or conspiratorial, or biased.
This is the anti-intellectual streak that angers me, when with no thought or justification whatsoever people label the whole sphere as garbage; when those same people point-blank refuse to even consider evidence when offered to them. That, frankly, is far ruder than anything I've said on this thread or elsewhere.
//It's hard to keep my temper when faced with such a dismissive and close-minded attitude to the effect that humanity has had on the world.//
That is the response of a mind educated beyond a basic level of common sense "intelligence". Trapped in a narrow mental process that now insists that the world would possibly be a better environment if mankind had not existed, or evolved, or indeed continued to. We should all be living in caves where fire was not used for the common good and the wheel was a concept beyond comprehension. Haha Meehh.
Myself??? I have done 70.91 years revolving around the Sun and spent much of it pondering the vagaries of the journey. More than most "experts" I would submit...….Certainly more than our, self elected saviour and ultimate critic, who as yet as far as I can discern has not yet fledged and made a nest that is his responsibility, whilst lecturing and hectoring us who have with false premise and even more flawed assumptions regarding our abilities to think and make rational choices. Glow Bull Warning is a false and destructive theory designed and plomulgated by either the willing charlatan or the misguided sucker.
That is the response of a mind educated beyond a basic level of common sense "intelligence". Trapped in a narrow mental process that now insists that the world would possibly be a better environment if mankind had not existed, or evolved, or indeed continued to. We should all be living in caves where fire was not used for the common good and the wheel was a concept beyond comprehension. Haha Meehh.
Myself??? I have done 70.91 years revolving around the Sun and spent much of it pondering the vagaries of the journey. More than most "experts" I would submit...….Certainly more than our, self elected saviour and ultimate critic, who as yet as far as I can discern has not yet fledged and made a nest that is his responsibility, whilst lecturing and hectoring us who have with false premise and even more flawed assumptions regarding our abilities to think and make rational choices. Glow Bull Warning is a false and destructive theory designed and plomulgated by either the willing charlatan or the misguided sucker.
"It's hard to keep my temper when faced with such a dismissive and close-minded attitude to the effect that humanity has had on the world."
Then you need to vent your spleen on the inhabitants of China, USA, Russia, Germany Saudi Arabia and Australia among others, Jim. All of them produce far more carbon emissions per head than the UK, some of them (USA, Saudi and Australia) more than three times as much.
The UK produces less than 1% of global emissions and it could reduce that percentage to zero tomorrow and it would make no significant difference whatsoever. Whilst China is opening a new coal fired power station at the rate of about one a week your bile would be better reserved for them than a few ignoramuses here in the UK.
Then you need to vent your spleen on the inhabitants of China, USA, Russia, Germany Saudi Arabia and Australia among others, Jim. All of them produce far more carbon emissions per head than the UK, some of them (USA, Saudi and Australia) more than three times as much.
The UK produces less than 1% of global emissions and it could reduce that percentage to zero tomorrow and it would make no significant difference whatsoever. Whilst China is opening a new coal fired power station at the rate of about one a week your bile would be better reserved for them than a few ignoramuses here in the UK.
China's not a member of Answerbank, though, at least as far as I'm aware.
Also, while the point you are making is technically correct -- I of course accept that the UK alone can do little or nothing about this -- it's also a question of leadership. The most recent moves from the US to generally step backwards, for example, need to be combatted and resisted, but it would be harder to do that if we were not also trying ourselves to tackle the problem.
The criticism of China is also an interesting point. Absent leadership from the US recently, it's actually China that has stepped up to become the main driver of the Paris Treaty, and frankly that's a travesty. They are, to be sure, some of the biggest investors in various renewable energy sources, but that's for cynical reasons. In that sense, then, the lack of leadership shown by the US, and with only a limited role the UK can play, has left a nasty vacuum at the top that deserves to be tackled.
The main problem is that everyone seems happy enough to blame everybody else. As long as that continues, nobody will actually tackle anything, and the risk posed by climate change will then only continue to grow.
Also, while the point you are making is technically correct -- I of course accept that the UK alone can do little or nothing about this -- it's also a question of leadership. The most recent moves from the US to generally step backwards, for example, need to be combatted and resisted, but it would be harder to do that if we were not also trying ourselves to tackle the problem.
The criticism of China is also an interesting point. Absent leadership from the US recently, it's actually China that has stepped up to become the main driver of the Paris Treaty, and frankly that's a travesty. They are, to be sure, some of the biggest investors in various renewable energy sources, but that's for cynical reasons. In that sense, then, the lack of leadership shown by the US, and with only a limited role the UK can play, has left a nasty vacuum at the top that deserves to be tackled.
The main problem is that everyone seems happy enough to blame everybody else. As long as that continues, nobody will actually tackle anything, and the risk posed by climate change will then only continue to grow.
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