ChatterBank2 mins ago
Looks Like The P M Has It Nailed Already.
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So the VONC is a complete waste of time.
So the VONC is a complete waste of time.
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If you get this deal, and you hate it, how is that democracy, as you define it, in action?
The alternative is to let MPs to decide on what will, effectively, be a choice between this deal and remaining; you can be fairly certain that leaving under No Deal is off the agenda as far as Parliament is concerned.
The alternative is to let MPs to decide on what will, effectively, be a choice between this deal and remaining; you can be fairly certain that leaving under No Deal is off the agenda as far as Parliament is concerned.
I'm not saying that you personally have changed your mind, although other Leavers may have -- or, as we've seen with respect to one or two on here, may never vote again anyway.
The point is that if Parliament doesn't vote the way you want it to then your only opportunity to force Leaving the EU without this deal is to say so a second time in a second referendum. It is, I suggest, self-defeating to refuse even to contemplate this idea.
Of course, from my point of view I want to vote to stay in a second time, but the beauty of democracy is that all voices can be heard. Right now, neither yours nor mine is being heard -- certainly not by Theresa May, anyway, who as the person in charge is pushing through a plan that we both hate.
The point is that if Parliament doesn't vote the way you want it to then your only opportunity to force Leaving the EU without this deal is to say so a second time in a second referendum. It is, I suggest, self-defeating to refuse even to contemplate this idea.
Of course, from my point of view I want to vote to stay in a second time, but the beauty of democracy is that all voices can be heard. Right now, neither yours nor mine is being heard -- certainly not by Theresa May, anyway, who as the person in charge is pushing through a plan that we both hate.
danny/emmy: Government (and businesses) can prepare for No Deal as much as it likes (and is not really preparing that much anyway, which is perhaps a serious mistake) -- but at some point Parliament is likely to assert its will and stop a No Deal exit. Whether that's accepting the Withdrawal Agreement in its current (or a slightly modified) form, or introducing some emergency legislation to extend or rescind A50 notification, I don't know, but it seems a pretty safe bet that the UK won't leave without a deal, on March 29th or any other date, at least not if Parliament is the final arbiter on this matter.
As I say, my preferred course of action would be for Parliament to reject this deal and then go on to cancel Brexit altogether, either before or after putting the question back to the people. My point, though, is that this really ought to be your preferred course too -- not so much the stopping Brexit bit, obviously, but if you hate the Deal but still want to Leave then your only hope is to force Parliament to do this by saying so a second time in a referendum.
As I say, my preferred course of action would be for Parliament to reject this deal and then go on to cancel Brexit altogether, either before or after putting the question back to the people. My point, though, is that this really ought to be your preferred course too -- not so much the stopping Brexit bit, obviously, but if you hate the Deal but still want to Leave then your only hope is to force Parliament to do this by saying so a second time in a referendum.
jim 13:32, if there is another vote it should be a carbon copy of the last one. The Leave option naturally implies leave with no deal, given what has gone on up to now. However that would be a betrayal, I think we now should leave with no deal and firefight the issues. It would be troublesome in the short term but the medium to long term would be a lot better than the vassal deal on the table.
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