A Good Debate To Be Had Here

[-Talbot-]

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/muslim-mums-protest-outside-school-15729135?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar


Where to begin.

[Mamyalynne]

As parents we all have the right to a say about what is being taught.

What sometimes confuses me is when it's said Schools are 'promoting' a subject - that makes it sound like a sales drive which I'm sure it isn't.

Teaching children about something, especially if it's a topic new to them will always result in questions asked at home - sometimes awkward ones.

Parents should try and answer those calmly and clearly.

[fiction-factory]

Islam is totally against same sex relationships but I work with quite a few Muslim school children who are clearly gay and I wonder if/how it is accepted at home.
This topic is a real problem/dichotomy for those on the left. Looking back to my student days I do wonder how the student unions can be so tolerant, even supportive, of Isalamic groups give that the Islamic views on some issues are the complete opposite of left/liberal views regarding the treatment of women, gay rights and general tolerance of differences

[sanmac]

Are these people who will not tolerate homosexuality the same people who will tolerate FGM and breast-ironing?

[-Talbot-]

This topic is a real problem/dichotomy for those on the left.




I do hope that doesn't put them off entering the debate, FF

[david small]

Had to look up breast ironing as never heard of it. People are very strange animals indeed. Personally I do not approve of certain school curriculum. But, hey that’s just my opinion.

[vetuste_ennemi]

//Are these people who will not tolerate homosexuality the same people who will tolerate FGM and breast-ironing?//

Same religion, but not the same people. The FGM etc crowd are mainly from Somalia and sub-Saharan Africa, think; most of Birmingham's Muslim are from Pakistan.

Nevertheless it will be interesting to see how this particular contradiction in multiculturalism is resolved.

Quite clearly there's not a lot of common ground between this school and its "No Outsiders" programme ("This is an inclusive school that celebrates diversity. As a result, pupils demonstrate respect for an individual’s age, disability, gender or gender reassignment, sexuality, race, religion or belief") on the one hand, and Ms Shah's position on the other:

"Sex relationship education is being taught without our consent...
[the school] is running what's called CHIPS - challenging homophobia in primary schools - and it's totally against Islamic beliefs...
My child came home and told me am I OK to be a boy? It's confusing children about sexuality...
The school knew the local community and parents have a different set of family values and morals, and were opposed to an LGBT agenda that says being gay is OK...
Our community ethos was not respected. We feel betrayed by the school."

[Zacs-Master]

Begin with the premise that these people are British. Some people my find this hard to accept. Our culture is an ever changing landscape. Adapt or......

[-Talbot-]

Adapt?


You mean adapt by not being gay in Muslim areas?

[bednobs]

i think it presents a dichotomy for the right as well as the left, or at keat the section of the right that thinks homosexuality is awful but also thinks muslims should conform to british values or go home

[-Talbot-]

Do you think Ms Shah be happy for children to learn about LGBT equality in big school?

[-Talbot-]

Is Mr Moffat promoting or challenging homophobia?

A big difference I would think?

[Theland]

When I was in school there was no sex education. Nature took its course.
I agree that LBGTetc should be binned off.
Leave it to the parents.
Let the schools concentrate on the academic subjects.
You don't get a job by being an expert on sexual preferences.

[-Talbot-]

So you agree with the Muslims protesting against CHIPS then, Theland?

[vetuste_ennemi]

Yeah, think about it.

There are some "Brits" who are "opposed to an LGBT agenda that says being gay is OK" and there are the other "Brits" running the school who are promoting that agenda.

What to do, eh?

Well, the teachers could stop promoting the contentious agenda.

Or the offended parents could grin and bear it.

Or we could have separate schools for those who think being gay and all those other things is OK and those like Ms Shah who don't.

The last time I saw a conflict between the curriculum and parents' wishes was a few years ago now in Bristol. Some of material was a retelling of the fairy tale corpus challenging cultural stereotypes. So, for instance, Prince goes off seeking Princess, but ends up with Prince instead. Other material challenged traditional patriarchal prejudices by depicting family units with two mummies or two daddies.

In that case the parents won and the "offensive" material was withdrawn.

[Theland]

One of my sons, (32), is gay and lives happily with his partner.
At school he received no relevant sex education, and when he realised he was gay, we just give him a big hug and a big kiss and assured him we would always support him whatever his choices.
He is happy, we are happy.
What not to like?

[vetuste_ennemi]

Ah, here's the article about the Bristol school. Good old DM - "Muslim Fury, eh?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-553008/Muslims-fury-forces-schools-shelve-anti-homophobia-storybooks-5-year-olds.html

[Theland]

Schools have no right to preach LBGTQetc

[Theland]

Its a pity the broader population did not protest also.

[vetuste_ennemi]

//Its a pity the broader population did not protest also//

No point: their objections would be dismissed as prejudice, or even, in extreme cases, prosecuted as "hate speech".

Ms Shah's objections are respected because they are based on a conscientous (and plausible) loyalty to her own cultural tradition.

[sherrardk]

Wonder why the parents are complaining now, the teacher has been there since 2016.